Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:00]:
Welcome, advocates, to another episode of the Lead in Equity podcast, a podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their schools. Today's special guest is doctor Analise Corbin. So without further ado, Analise, thank you so much for joining us today.

Analies Corbin [00:00:18]:
Oh, Sheldon, thank you so much for having me. It's an honor. I'm excited to have that conversation.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:23]:
Let's do this. I'm excited to have you as well. Thank you again for spending a Sunday afternoon with me to chat about agency student agency. But before we get into that, I'd love for you to share a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Analies Corbin [00:00:37]:
Sure. Thank you so much. So I am a anthropologist, and I have been an anthropologist working in the field of education for the last twenty five years or so, maybe even longer than that, actually. And in that role, I had the privilege quite some time ago to be able to start an organization, a nonprofit called the P. A. S. Foundation. So I'm the founder and currently also the CEO, twenty five years ago.

Analies Corbin [00:01:05]:
And the PAS Foundation is all about, thinking about teaching, learning, and the future of work very differently, primarily about making sure that we can create opportunities and experiences. So a wide array of students from different backgrounds, experiences, you name it, can find their way into incredible careers and hopefully careers that they're passionate about. And then most recently, I have a new book out called Hacking School, Five Strategies to Link Learning to Life. So that's what keeps me busy these days.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:01:35]:
Alright. Good. Well, thank you again for your time. I'm curious what got you into the anthropology. We connect that to what you do now as far as the past foundation.

Analies Corbin [00:01:45]:
Absolutely. So, what got me into anthropology was just a love of trying to understand the connections between what we do as humans and the world that we live in. So sometimes that's about understanding the connections between humans and their environment or humans and technology or humans and other humans. But really for me, and ultimately as an anthropologist, I'm I'm an archaeologist specifically. And so it was an applied research science that was all encompassing. We we it wasn't just about the science itself, but it was about the human interactions in the world and the way we we interact with each other. And that just really spoke to me as a human myself. Right? So and then, you know, as it relates to the PAS Foundation, it was really an amazing thing because as an archaeologist and an underwater archaeologist in particular, right? Yes.

Analies Corbin [00:02:39]:
I know. Crazy. The you know, that that particular field, that work is it's it's one shot, and archaeology is the one destructive science that there is because the minute we we we touch an archaeological site, we forever change it. And even though we can document it, all the stuff in the lab that you do with any other lab science, we can interpret it, but we can never actually recreate it. There is no experiment to redo. Right? And so because of that, that means I've gotta take all the tools, all the power, the superpowers and otherwise, right, that I might need, all the other research scientists when I go into the field, and you get one shot to get it right, basically. And I love that very holistic, applied research perspective. And so for me, it became a great foundational opportunity to build an organization that's all about how do I get as many kids as possible interested in all the different sorts of fields of opportunity, particularly around STEM, STEM education.

Analies Corbin [00:03:38]:
And I just wanted them to know that they could go with their true authentic selves into whatever that thing that they're gonna study is, and that we could help equip them with whatever tools they needed to be able to go down that journey. And I thought that was a really powerful way to think about education.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:03:55]:
I love this. Okay? And I can see your passion as you're speaking. And, folks, if you're watching this, like, you you know what I'm talking about. Like, this is great. I can see it. And, I mean, just the idea of going into underwater archaeology. I I would never even think about that field. And but somehow you got introduced to that.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:04:15]:
And one of the things that I'm listening to as you're talking was, like, your emphasis on students. And I wanna talk about student agency, but I wanna make sure that you and I are on the same page and listeners out there on the same page in regards to what student agency is. Can you define that for us?

Analies Corbin [00:04:31]:
Sure. So for me, student agency is about providing the space necessary for students to truly, truly embrace their voice, their choice, their own internal advocacy, their belief and power in themselves to cocreate, co design their own learning journeys.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:04:51]:
How does that look? Because we have standards. We have benchmarks. We have standardized testing. We have all these different requirements. We have textbooks that says, this is what you teach and our lesson plans, all these things. So how do we involve our students in their learning?

Analies Corbin [00:05:08]:
When I step back and think about it because I get asked that question all the time, as you can imagine. And the reality of it is that great educators recognize that the greatest opportunity for their students is for their students to co create and co design with them. There is there is far less learning that happens if I were to stand back or stand at the front of the room behind my podium, that sage on the stage sort of approach. Then if I engage my students in saying, hey, we need to learn about x, right? Whatever x happens to be. How can we together create the opportunity for you students to learn and for me facilitator of learning to go on a journey with you? What would happen if? That's what I find so beautiful about embracing agency. And yes, we have tests. We have to measure. I'm not opposed to measuring.

Analies Corbin [00:06:02]:
But we don't have to measure just by taking a test. We can measure through so many different ways, especially ways that allow students to demonstrate what they've learned, how they've learned, and what they still wanna know.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:06:14]:
Okay. I love this, and I love how you emphasize facilitator. I I paid attention to that, and I thought that was really good. I liked how you did that. That was good. So okay. So I I I like that you're saying that, okay, we're gonna touch on the facilitator side of things because, again, I you mentioned well, we ask our our students what do you want to know. Okay.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:06:33]:
This is the topic. We're US history. This is a class. What do you wanna know about US history? Is that I'm assuming that's something that we do in the beginning of the class, beginning of the year type of thing, and that, like, your typical survey. What are some ways that we can kinda get this information?

Analies Corbin [00:06:48]:
Sure. Well, I mean, we have to step back just a moment and start with the fact that one of the things you also said is we have standards. We have this the public has an expectation that we are going to educate their children, that we need to make sure we spend time throughout the semester, let's say, or the year, and that we make sure that our students know these things. But let's just say that the students have to learn those things in a particular order, or let's just say that they have to spend ten minutes on something when they want to spend ten hours on it because they're interested. And so part of this is making sure that very early on that you set the sort of expectations and especially the the expectations around the co designing in your classroom. And the minute you set that expectation in my mind that we are gonna co design our learning journey together for the next period of time, you know, that by default says, you have to participate with me. What are you interested? What do you wanna do? And maybe I'm gonna take a survey. You know, if my kids are older, they're in high school.

Analies Corbin [00:07:52]:
Maybe I send something out to them before the class even starts, before they've even met me so that I can spend some time. But I think the most important thing, the single most important thing that I tell educators is take the first set of moments. And for you, maybe that's a day. Maybe that's a class period. Maybe that's an entire week with these kids. Get to know them. If you don't know who your students are, how could you possibly go on a journey with them that's going to be effective?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:24]:
But that's taking away class time, Annalise.

Analies Corbin [00:08:27]:
I don't care. You know what? I I really care. I mean, the reality is time is an arbitrary constraint that we've made a decision that we're gonna prioritize over what's really important for kids.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:42]:
Okay. I'm with you. I'm I'm just being devils. Okay. So alright. Alright. Okay. What does that look like? Because, again, you only have so many weeks, so many days.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:08:51]:
You got holidays. You got p d's built in. You got you get sick. What's up? Whatever. So we have again, we have those standards that we have to hit. How much time do we spend getting to know our students, or is that built in maybe there's some allocated time, but then throughout the school year, we're also doing some more reinforcement type of activities as well.

Analies Corbin [00:09:12]:
All all of that. I mean, the reality is, yes, we need to spend some time upfront. And, again, maybe you can do that through some kind of pre survey. That's great. If you have the ability to do that and your kids will respond, or you're in a setting that is conducive to that, because that's not always the case. And there's nothing wrong with that. Right? But the, the other piece of it is you can build in opportunities for yourself to learn about your kids every time you meet with them. Yeah.

Analies Corbin [00:09:37]:
Then every time you say, what do you think? You know, a great observer and a great facilitator of a learning journey is gonna take that in and say, oh my gosh, you know, now I know something more about Sheldon that I didn't know before. All these pieces and parts start to roll together. And the other thing in my mind around really, really great facilitating of agency with our students is that we also get very quickly to the point where we we allow our students enough choice that they can demonstrate how they learn and what they've learned, right, in a variety of ways. And those variety of ways. And some kids are going to say, I just want to take a test. There are kids like that. Nothing wrong with that. But there are other kids that are like, No, I want to write a play, or I want to do a TikTok, or I want to create a mural.

Analies Corbin [00:10:29]:
I wanna do a piece of art. I wanna do interpretive dance. The reality is when we give our kiddos that opportunity to show us what they know, they're gonna do so in a way that also gives us to know them as well.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:42]:
So is this more of a universally designed for learning type of thing? Or is or are are we voting and saying, okay. Whoever here's your here's your options. You could do, like you said, performative something. You could do, verbal something, or you can just take a test. Mhmm. And the highest vote wins. It's I mean, what is, I guess, the process?

Analies Corbin [00:11:04]:
I mean, some people would do that. I I don't recommend that as a strategy, not by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, because bottom line, we're targeting agency also. Okay. Another interpretation is autonomy. It's not truly autonomous, but has a lot of autonomy built into a classroom or an educator that is truly, truly honoring agency amongst their students. And so, you know, my hope would be it's never really to to a vote in terms of, you know, what's that demonstration going to be. Because the other thing is we also have to remember that not everybody learns the same and nobody, not everybody is going to test or demonstrate the same either.

Analies Corbin [00:11:47]:
Right? And if we really, if our goal, if our goal is to help kids know, we can't do that if the process by which we're evaluating is hampering a kid's ability to demonstrate to you that they actually do know.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:12:01]:
So I can hear my listeners already. Oh, so does that mean I had to grade 20 different types of things?

Analies Corbin [00:12:08]:
Stop grading anything.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:12:09]:
Okay. Okay. Because I'm like, is there just a rubric that we create? Be able to gauge where things are, but you're saying there's no grading. So I I wanna make sure I'm understanding. There there's grading.

Analies Corbin [00:12:19]:
We have to measure. I wanna be really clear about that. And so there's a couple of different ways that I advocate that folks think about this. First and foremost, when anytime I hear an educator say, Oh my gosh, I've got so many papers to grade, my very first pushback is, Why are you grading papers? You don't need to learn that. Your kids do, Right? Especially as the kids get older, but honestly, even with younger kids, if well designed, if an educator spends time and is well designed the way they re going to think about this, the students are providing the evaluation or a lot of the evaluation of other students. Okay. That's also giving them the opportunity to be self reflective for themselves. It's a skill.

Analies Corbin [00:13:02]:
You have to scaffold them. You know, if you just throw it at them and they've had no practice with this, yes, it will be a nightmare for everybody involved. But if you scaffold kids to understand how do I evaluate something? You know, we ask them as part of our standard to evaluate tests, to evaluate, what did I read, to evaluate pieces of writing. This is no different. And it's an incredibly powerful tool. So, you know, that's one way. The other is we, we, my organization, myself, I really, really advocate for mastery or competency based rather than, you know, the more traditional assessment. And so the minute you take agency and you add mastery or competency based assessment with it, it frees you, the educator, up to not have to spend all of your time in the weeds of assessment and instead facilitating assessing so that your students can learn not just when they're doing their own work, but when they're evaluating other work as well.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:00]:
Okay. Okay. So you're saying because I wanna make sure I'm understanding because I I I know we got a lot of teachers that are probably more on the traditional side. Okay. I give you a test or a quiz. Some sort of assessment, formative, summative. And you're saying there's a maybe a different way with using your students, maybe on a peer assessment type of like, I just wanna make sure I'm clear on this.

Analies Corbin [00:14:22]:
Yeah. No. That's a it's a great follow-up question. And, you know, we can't do it all the time. Right? Because there are moments when, you know, the the educator has to wait in. Because, again, we have to measure. We have to know what we're doing. We have to to make sure that we are we're running down the road in all the right ways.

Analies Corbin [00:14:40]:
And formative assessments, I love formative assessment because it's right now and it's all the time. It's not waiting on you to say, we're gonna stop everything we're doing. We're gonna take a quiz or we're gonna take a test. Quizzes and testing, like I said, they have their place too. Those are okay as well. But, you know, a really balanced classroom is gonna have all of these things. And, you know, when it comes time to make the rubrics for any assessments, once again, you know, one of the things that I would advocate for is don't think about the rubric in the most traditional sense. Instead, think about a mastery based rubric, whether you are a mastery based school or classroom or not.

Analies Corbin [00:15:17]:
Although I would encourage you as an educator to try to start working on, you know, transitioning your own personal classroom to at least being somewhat mastery based. But you have the opportunity to create that rubric with your learners. Once again, that's agency. But more importantly, if they create the criteria, it's gonna be, a, easier for them, but more importantly, there's gonna be a different level of fidelity towards that. The old traditional rubric that was like, you get zero points for doing this and you get five points for doing that. I tell everybody ditch that rubric. In fact, don't even think about that rubric anymore because I would argue we're setting kids up for failure. Some kids, right, are gonna do the least amount of work possible just to get by.

Analies Corbin [00:16:01]:
And other kids are gonna do far and above because that's just what their personality types are. But what I found in my research as an anthropologist in education has found that as soon as you eliminate zero through four in that traditional setting, and you say, to achieve mastery, these are the things that we agree together because we created that rubric together, that we agree this is the level of of work we have to do. Nine times out of 10, all those kids will get there.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:16:29]:
Okay.

Analies Corbin [00:16:30]:
Right? They will. Because anything until I get to that moment, it's a work in progress. Okay? Go back and tweak this. Go work with your partner over there and talk about other ways you can do one more little piece or you can amp it up a little bit more. Help your buddy edit for you. It's pretty remarkable.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:16:47]:
I love this. I love it. Okay. So one of the things I heard you say early on was the importance of getting to know your students before you even really dig into the weeds, if you will. And then as I'm hearing, you're talking about the importance of involving your students throughout this process. I was a history teacher, so I I I bring up a lot of history examples, but I wanna I wanna talk about maybe math, for example. And how does, obviously, there's gonna be a process in regards to getting student feedback. Obviously, we want folks to grab the book.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:19]:
K? And and all that information there, links in the show notes, folks. Make sure you support Analise and her work because this sounds amazing. But can you give us maybe a general? Somebody who has never done any of this before to get their their students involved? What are some more things that they can do besides getting to know their students to involve them in the process creating maybe some sort of mastery rubric assessment style, finding out how they're going to show this mastery, maybe even the order of what they're doing. Because I'm thinking math. I'm like, okay. Let's just say second grade math, and you gotta know what two plus two is before you can get into multiplication. So, like, is there really a lot of wiggle room to kinda, like, go is there I mean, do you have to go in a certain order when it comes to certain things? I'm I'm I'm asking a really big question.

Analies Corbin [00:18:07]:
No. I understand. To think that stuff.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:18:10]:
So I'm a I'm a take it. I'm a stop talking right now so that you can kinda help us out.

Analies Corbin [00:18:14]:
Sure. Sure. It's a great question, though. And I'm this is another question that I get a lot as well. Right? And the reality is there are some things where we we have to go in in a particular order. Right? And it's interesting that you brought up math. I love math teachers, but math teachers will always tell me, oh, we can't do that. But sometimes they tend to be the last ones to sort of opt in to thinking about these things a little bit differently.

Analies Corbin [00:18:38]:
And it's because and I understand. It's because right from being trained as a mathematics educator, you, you, you're really trained that we do this, we do this. So that there's a very, very linearness to the way we learn mathematics. There's a lot of truth in that, but there is also wiggle room as well. And here's one of the strategies that I encourage all educators to use. And that is that whatever the content is that you have to teach, step back from the order of operations, if you will, like the process pieces, and think about the content as an umbrella. And within that umbrella of what it is that we're going to teach or we're going to learn as a classroom, ask your students. So here's where more of that agency comes in.

Analies Corbin [00:19:28]:
Say, so we need to learn. I'm not going to use addition to multiplication. Folks get a little bit hung up when you start talking about that with super little kids. But, but the reality of it is even with our elementary kids, like, we can say, we're going to study why some animals have spots and others have stripes, just as an example. And so we really want to very early on, because this is a thread that goes all the way through K-twelve. If you think about biology, with our little kids, it's as simple as understanding that there's variation in the color pattern of all kinds of animals. So that's gonna be the elementary sort of standard. And you're gonna get to middle school.

Analies Corbin [00:20:06]:
We're gonna really start talking about genetic variation. Then you're gonna get in high school and you're gonna start start really talking about replicating of genetic materials. And so, but you're still talking about the same thing, just at different levels. And so one of the things that you can do with the kiddos is say, okay, how do you think we could learn this? And allow the students to start creating small projects that will allow them to explore that topic. And in exploring that topic through a small project, they have the the the agency, right, to weave this way or to weave that way. They're still hitting that standard, but they're they're going deep in that standard rather than you mentioning it one day in a lecture and it turns up on a test next week and you all move on. Whether that kid really could apply that knowledge or not. Because the idea is that you really, really want those kids when this topic comes up again several grades later.

Analies Corbin [00:21:00]:
And, you know, most folks will recognize, but if you don't, hey, you know, news flash, standards go on every other year rotation. The same standard. If you pull them apart, so it's gonna be the standards in grade one, three, five, seven, you know, nine, eleven, same anchor standards, just difference in terms of the way we think about it. It's the same thing on the events. So you want the kids to say, oh, I remember something about this, right? Because they're gonna see it again and and again and again and again. And that's how you get deeper and deeper into the content. And math is the best example of that because we really do, in fact, need algebra to understand calculus.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:21:38]:
Yes.

Analies Corbin [00:21:39]:
It's the same thing. You know, I love that you're a history teacher because as an anthropologist, you know, I taught history an awful lot too. And it's it's a very similar thing. But do we have to teach history in order? Nope. We can teach it as themes. We can teach it chronological. We can teach it regionally. There's so many different ways we could tackle that and still get all the same content through.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:21:59]:
Yeah. Because I'm glad you said it that way because I was kinda thinking in my head, how do I tell World War two in without going in order, like or World War one. Mhmm. How do I start, like can I start World War two first and then start and then go into World War one? But, yeah, there's we can we can get creative Mhmm. With our process of how we do it. So okay. Thank you for clarifying that. So here's the other question though because one of the things that you also mentioned was how much time do we spend on something? Like, maybe for one subject, we're we're doing a a two day lesson and maybe another one, maybe it's a whole week or so.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:35]:
And getting that feedback from your students is important. And I I like this one because this is something that I would struggle with as a as back in my classroom. There was history events I could not wait to teach because they were personally my favorite stories. Mhmm. My favorite events or historical figures, whatever, to teach. And so I wanted to spend a lot of time on this thing. And I know a lot of teachers do this where it's like, we personally like certain areas within our content that we're delivering, and we wait. We have a big old event, big theme.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:06]:
Every November, we do this big old unit, but it's what we did. And I love that you're bringing up no. No. Hold on. Hold on. What do your students want? Because they may not be into that. So I I wanna dig in that a little bit more. Why is that important that we kinda take a step back from maybe expressing our favorite things, but really giving our students more say, if you will, or listening to our students more in that process.

Analies Corbin [00:23:34]:
And it's really, really critically important that your students feel seen. Mhmm. They need to be seen. They need to be heard. They need to feel like they belong. And the only way you're gonna do that is by investing in your kids and your kids' opinions, the way they think about the world. Right? All of those pieces. But I will caution that it's we don't want the educator to fully step away.

Analies Corbin [00:23:59]:
Because once again, our educator or our facilitator of learning is is fully human too. And so this is what I tell I tell the educators that I work with. I say, look, kids will figure out if you are not being authentic with them in about five seconds.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:16]:
Mhmm.

Analies Corbin [00:24:16]:
Right? They get fast. The little ones, the big ones, and everybody in between. Right? College kids, you name it. So be your authentic self. You're asking them to bring their authentic selves to you and into the community that you create that is your learning environment, your classroom, your school, whatever. But you have to show up as your authentic self as well. Otherwise, it's not genuine. And so what I will tell people is show up and teach your passion.

Analies Corbin [00:24:45]:
If you love a particular unit, share that with your kids. Right? Because I bet if you're authentic with them and say, I love this unit. This is the one thing all semester. I look forward to teaching it. Will you all go on this journey with me? They will likely say yes, because they're gonna be excited because you're excited because you're bothering to share with them how deeply and meaningful and engaging, whatever that topic happens to be to you. You're not gonna teach the thing that you love the most about your subject every single day, because you'll have to make space for them to bring the thing they love about the topics you're working on as well. So it's a it's a share. It's a shared opportunity to be very authentic and to honor each other.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:25:30]:
So we're not giving up our hopes and dreams, our our favorite story or our No. No. No. No. Okay. Okay.

Analies Corbin [00:25:40]:
Bring them. And, you know, it's really funny because I I have educators, you know, who love all kinds of things, including things that have nothing to do with what they teach. So, you know, let's pick on the poor math teacher again. And so, you know, you may have a math teacher who is an amazing math teacher who likes math, but when you really start to ask this individual, what do you love? You might find out that they love windsurfing, or you might find out that they love to crochet. Well, you can teach math through both of those things really easily. So why not show up one day with it?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:26:13]:
Got you.

Analies Corbin [00:26:13]:
Right?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:26:14]:
This is good. Okay. Because I was a little worried. I was like, oh, man. So I need to put away my favorite lesson and just get what what do y'all wanna teach? What do y'all wanna learn? Okay. Alright. So so but I like the the language that you gave. It's like, hey, folks.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:26:28]:
This is my favorite event. This is my favorite unit. I wanna take this journey. I think you said take this journey with me, and that makes a lot of sense. Again, so you're not giving up on your favorite pieces and

Analies Corbin [00:26:39]:
Right.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:26:40]:
Taking away your your love of teaching because you're not able to teach what you love to teach.

Analies Corbin [00:26:45]:
Right. And that's part of what got you there. You know, that's the thing I always remind people of is that, you know, the the majority of educators, not not all, but I would say the vast majority of educators, they came to the field of teaching because they they they loved they loved it. They had an educator that they loved along their journey. And we all know those teachers. We remember them deeply. They had profound impact on us. And we will often go into the profession because I wanna be, you know, just like mister Sheldon.

Analies Corbin [00:27:18]:
He was the coolest teacher I ever had. He was my history teacher, and he was incredible. So I wanna do that too. So the majority of people who come to the field, they they came for all the right reasons. And yet the system that we, especially in The US, but other parts of the world as well, sometimes the systems that we now find ourselves operating in have become so outdated and so constraining and so process driven that we lose ourselves along the way. And that's the reason educators are burned out. They're struggling. It's not because they're bad people or because they shouldn't have come to the profession.

Analies Corbin [00:27:57]:
It's actually just the opposite. It's because the system they're operating in right now honestly isn't keeping up with what they need or with what students need today.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:28:08]:
Whoo. Annalise, you have brought the fire today and just really got me thinking about a lot when it comes to teaching. And I'm I'm not in the classroom anymore, but even for those who are listening, this is really good feedback. This is really good stuff. I I'd love for you to share any final words of advice that you would like to provide to our listeners out there.

Analies Corbin [00:28:29]:
So don't forget to do what you love. If you you love teaching, you love chemistry, if you love cooking, if you love going for walks, bring all of the pieces of yourself. Bring them into your profession. And if you will do that and you will ask folks to go on a journey with you and you can go on a journey with them, you will find your kids are gonna be super engaged. They're gonna be there with you. It'll be a lot easier. Help yourself.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:28:59]:
A lot easier. Yeah.

Analies Corbin [00:29:00]:
It'll be a lot easier. Yeah.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:29:01]:
I love that. Yeah. If we have some folks that wanna connect with you, what's the best way to reach you online?

Analies Corbin [00:29:06]:
[email protected].

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:29:10]:
It is. Alright. Well, folks, links in the show notes. The title of the book is Hacking School, Five Strategies to Link Learning to Life. Analise, it has truly been a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time.

Analies Corbin [00:29:24]:
Absolutely. The pleasure was all mine. Thank you, Sheldon.

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