Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:00]:
Welcome, advocates, to another episode of the Leading Equity Podcast. A podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their schools. Today's special guest is Weston Sprott. So without further ado, Weston, thank you so much for joining us today.

Weston Sprott [00:00:17]:
Thanks for having me. Looking forward to it.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:00:19]:
Pleasure is all mine. I'm excited for today's conversation. But before we get into today's topic, I'd love for you to share a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Weston Sprott [00:00:27]:
My name is Weston Sprott. As you mentioned, I am dean and director of the preparatory division at The Juilliard School. At the preparatory division, we have 2 departments. 1 is the pre college and another is the music advancement program. And basically, what we do is we provide a conservatory style education to students between the ages of 8 to 18. So the pre college has about 300 students. It's a global program. Students come from literally all over the world, so they can come here and work with the world's finest teachers.

Weston Sprott [00:00:54]:
And the music advancement program is very much a local New York City program, students from the New York City Tri State area. We currently have 87 students in that program. Also, get a conservatory style education. These students are in our building every Saturday from 8:30 in the morning, oftentimes till 6, 7 o'clock at night, doing private lessons, music theory and ear training, playing in orchestra, wind ensemble, singing in choruses, studio classes, you name it. All the things that a student who is majoring in music in college would do, these students are packing all of that education into to 30 Saturdays over the course of the year. The music advancement program has a very specific focus on students who are historically underserved and underrepresented in classical music. And as of a couple of years ago, we've been able to make that program completely tuition free in perpetuity. So we're very proud of the fact that we have a lot of students who have been historically underserved be able to come to what I believe is the world's greatest institution for for learning and the performing arts for free forever.

Weston Sprott [00:01:57]:
It's an amazing thing. So I've been in this role as dean and director for the last 5 years. I've been on the faculty here since 2008, and it's been one of the great joys of my life. And in other parts of my life, I'm one of the cofounders and steering committee members of the Black Orchestral Network, which is an organization that is geared towards cultivating community, telling our stories, and lifting our voices, and the black community for for black orchestral musicians. And here at Lincoln Center across the street, I'm also a trombonist in the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra where I've been for the last 19 years. So that's that's a brief summary of what I've been up to.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:02:33]:
That's a lot. Good stuff. Well you know I'm excited to hear about that and I have so many questions just from your introduction. I mean, first part is I wanna make sure I understand what conservatory means. So could you give us a little bit more context when you say that we're a conservatory program?

Weston Sprott [00:02:49]:
Sure. A conservatory in in the context of music is something that's very hyper focused on this particular craft. I don't know if I would go so far as to call it a trade school, but that's kind of a way you would think about it. It's not a conservatory. It's not based in education that has extraordinary breadth. Of course, students who come to to a liberal art, to a conservatory for their education, a place like The Juilliard School, They are taking core academic classes. They're learning about reading comprehension and and writing, liberal arts, all these things, but they have an extreme focus on their artistic pursuit. So that's that's the way that we've traditionally thought of conservatories.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:03:26]:
Gotcha. Okay. And you say you played the trombone. Are you familiar with the Bilal brothers? Because I've been watching them on YouTube a lot, and they're, like, their trombone skills are just amazing.

Weston Sprott [00:03:36]:
Yeah. They're fantastic. It's amazing.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:03:39]:
Yeah. Alright. So let's start here because you said that you have been, you know, predominantly serving historically marginalized students. And now you're at a place where you are able to create tuition free spaces for them to be able to participate in this program. I'm just curious. Let's start with what are some of the trends maybe that you're seeing when it comes to Eakins interest maybe is the word I wanna say of our students, our BIPOC students, for example, into the performing arts?

Weston Sprott [00:04:11]:
I think the interest is really high. The the challenge is trying to remove as many of the barriers to entry as possible. So a really interesting thing for us is that, as I mentioned just a couple of years ago, we were able to become tuition free, which of course means that prior to that, we were not. Prior to that, we had a highly subsidized tuition that we charged in music advancement program, and we gave very robust financial aid so that we wouldn't have to decline any students who really deserve the opportunity to be here. But even still, there's something really significant about the messaging. I'm just imagining a family sitting around their kitchen table thinking about, is pursuing the art something that we wanna do? And it may be something that they wanna do, but when they see the price tag that's attached to it and the the various barriers to entry entry, we We need to take private lessons so that my child can prepare for this audition. We have to buy an instrument. We have to travel.

Weston Sprott [00:05:04]:
All of those things. Every one of those things stacks up and oftentimes is a reason for a young person or that young person's family to decide, you know what? Maybe this isn't the right thing for us to do. Even if those things aren't necessarily true from our perspective, if we're able to provide that type of support, someone clicks on the website, they see that it costs x number of 1,000 of dollars, and they just immediately go, close. No. Thank you. That's not for me. Right? So us being able to shift to a tuition free model was really significant, and what we've seen over the last couple of years already is that our applicant pool has increased by about a 160 percent. Wow.

Weston Sprott [00:05:38]:
Granted, part of that is we're advertising and we're trying to engage with community where we're very intentional about the way that we go about our recruitment, but I am sure that the fact that our program provides these opportunities to students for free is making a huge difference. And so when people realize that that barrier has been knocked down, it's really clear that the interest is there. There's there's no shortage of people who want the opportunity to provide a great a great chance for their young people to be able to do something that's fun, that challenges them, that teaches them how to solve difficult problems, and teach them to be able to express themselves. Who wouldn't want that?

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:06:19]:
I agree. I think sometimes what happens is a lot of folks, especially folks who think, oh, Juilliard, they hear the name. And like you said, they assume I can't afford it, but they may not even look to see if it's even possible because of just assuming there's gonna be barriers in front. For my students that are coming from a limited income ground, what are some of the things that you're doing to because, again, the interest obviously sounds like it's there. Right? And then now that you've been able to knock down some of those barriers, things are starting to change. You say you've been very intentional with your recruiting practices. What are some of the things that you're doing to reach some of those tougher populations?

Weston Sprott [00:06:54]:
So one of the first things I'll address and I'll I'll answer your question about recruitment is that we recognize that that our name brand, Juilliard, it has incredible social capital, people attach that name to extreme quality, and that's that's a double edged sword. On one hand, that that is what we do. We we thrive on artistic excellence, but at the same time we aim to be accessible, and we don't want a student before they even try. That's not for me. It costs too much. There's no way I would be good enough to do that, and so we are trying to put forward a face that says, hey. Look. We are accessible.

Weston Sprott [00:07:28]:
We're open. Juilliard is a place where a student like you should be and should aspire to be. And if you put forth some effort, we can we can create pathways for you to have an opportunity to be here. And so what does that look like as far as recruitment? One thing is just very much grassroots efforts. Me, members of my staff, member of members of our faculty, going out to to various schools, creative youth development programs across New York City, just being present, going to listen to their rehearsals, sitting down, playing side by side in the the orchestra and the with the bands with those programs, talking about what we do, passing out flyers, letting them know that Juilliard is not just a name on a building, but these are real people who are who are nice and warm and welcoming and that we wanna be supportive to them. And then when we do our own recruitment events, we we we reach out to those other programs that we know because we're not the only program in New York City that is that is trying to do good work for underserved communities. So we wanna be a good team player. And so we reach out to those programs and say, hey.

Weston Sprott [00:08:32]:
We're doing a recruitment event. We would love for you to be here also. This isn't just gonna be an open house for us. Let's do it as an open house for 10 or 15 programs all across New York City so that young people and their families can come here to Juilliard. They can learn all about Juilliard, but they can also leave knowing about 10 or 15 other programs in New York City so that if Juilliard turns out not to be the place for them this year, they know there's somewhere else that they can go as well and continue their education and find a community. You know, they can find their people.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:09:00]:
Okay. Okay. All that makes sense. And and, again, thank you for the work that's being done. You know, I know this is obviously very important to you. I wanna shift gears just a little bit because I think some of the barriers that we discussed were a lot of them were kinda maybe financial barriers. So maybe they don't have access to to funding for an instrument, or maybe they don't have access or feel they don't have access to enter in a program such as a Juilliard. For my folks that are performing arts teachers, directors within their high schools or their middle schools, maybe you could give a few strategies for those who might see some barriers at their level and maybe some practices that you could may or tips that you can give for those who are trying to develop their programs a little bit more locally?

Weston Sprott [00:09:46]:
I think one thing is is to try to connect with the various other programs that are out there. You know, a lot of times we try to do something alone. We don't realize that there are resources sometimes sometimes right in front of us. And granted, sometimes those resources are few and far between. There are still a lot of programs out here that are doing real significant work. And so try your best to connect your students with those programs, find ways to bring those supports in, and continue to to lobby for additional support across the city from from the city government. I think we're in a position now where where I believe that our local officials are reinvigorated to have a discussion about bringing arts education back, and so finding a way to lean into that. Also, thinking about how you want to advocate to the leadership within your school and within your district about wanting to support the arts.

Weston Sprott [00:10:39]:
I think we have a shortage of music educators. So that's one thing I would think about in higher ed, and that's that seems to be something that affects us pretty dramatically on the East Coast is making sure that higher ed is actually investing in and putting out enough high quality music educators so that we can fill these positions.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:10:55]:
When I was a school principal, we had a music teacher position, but we weren't able to offer it full time. So I know that when you're offering a part time position to run the band program, for example, what we were trying to get someone to do was to do the band, but we couldn't offer full time. And so it was hard for us to recruit teachers or 8 a teacher a teacher capable of running our band program. Are these I mean, are you seeing across the board? Are is that typical that the jobs are part time that are offered, or are there a lot of full time positions that are available out there?

Weston Sprott [00:11:28]:
I'm not sure. I don't work in the public schools Eakins though we intersect with public schools quite a bit. And so I have conversations from time to time with New York City Department of Education and public schools and public school teachers, and that's that's my understanding is that sometimes there's what you're saying. There's a lack of full time positions, but that doesn't mean there's a lack of an opportunity to have someone who is working in the arts. And there are also a lot of programs that send teachers part time to public schools to help develop the artistic programming at their schools as well.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:11:58]:
Okay. So what I'm hearing is funding might be a challenge. There also might be recruitment as a challenge as far as getting teachers, qualified staff within these positions. Sounds like you said that more of just exposing students to instruments maybe. What about careers? I mean, are there besides maybe being a music teacher or band teacher, what kind of careers are available that we're kinda teaching our students, you know, hey. Enter into the performing arts programs because you can make money in this area or that area? What kind of things are are out there for us?

Weston Sprott [00:12:31]:
There are tons of people who are making careers in the arts in all different ways. One of the ways that I make my career is by playing in an orchestra. You know, people are people are performing artists playing in orchestras, chamber ensembles as soloists, playing in jazz groups, people are freelance musicians. If you think especially in a place like New York City, on any given night, all the different venues that are filled with artists, people singing, playing instruments, dancing, acting, all all these things. It's actually an enormous economy. Right? But the other thing I think about is that the reason for getting an arts education or basing yourself in the arts is not primarily about getting a job. It's about what it actually can do do for you as a person, how you learn, how you think, how you interact with other people. Playing in an ensemble is is like a metaphor for for democracy, understanding how to work with others, knowing what your role is when it's time for you to step forward, when it's time for you to step back, when it's time for you to not play at all, when it's time to play loud, play soft, all those things.

Weston Sprott [00:13:32]:
It's a it's a metaphor for the way that we wanna be. And so in our programs here at Juilliard, for these students between the ages of 8 18, when these students graduate high school, half of them go on to major in music in college and half of them don't, and we consider both of those things to be a success. So another analogy, when I was growing up, I played in the band and the orchestra. I also played on the basketball team. And just think about how

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:13:52]:
much we we encourage

Weston Sprott [00:13:52]:
young people to skills and characteristics skills and characteristics that you gain from playing sports, but we don't ask our young people to all play sports because the end goal is that they will be in the NBA or the NFL. It's because we understand there's a whole lot of things they gain from having had that experience, and there are a lot of similarities, Eakins there are also some unique differences I think as well from from having an arts education.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:23]:
Okay. Well that okay. Okay. So for that level, like, the pre college level, it's more of developing the skills to maybe, like you said, know when to to play loud, know when to play soft, you know, from a metaphorical standpoint

Weston Sprott [00:14:38]:
Right.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:14:38]:
Interacting with other folks. So in essence, what I'm hearing is that these precollege programs, for example, Juilliard's precollege program is a great preparational program for students that are looking to move into higher education or just enter into the workforce afterwards?

Weston Sprott [00:14:57]:
Yeah. I think it's I think they're great skills for life regardless of what you choose to do. If you want to be a musician, you want to be a doctor, you want to be a politician, anything in between, The skills that you develop learning how to be an artist are really important. You know, playing these instruments, it's not an easy thing to do. If you anyone who's ever tried to play an instrument at a high level knows that's not a simple task. And one of the things that I tell our parents, yes, you get to go to a see your students on stage, and they make this beautiful product, and it brings a smile to your face, and everyone claps when it's over, and that's great. But one of the real things that your student learned is they learned I know how to do difficult things. If I put my mind to something, I can take this piece of metal or this this string instrument, and I can make something beautiful of it.

Weston Sprott [00:15:41]:
Something that is not just utilitarian, but something that's artistic and beautiful and that other people will appreciate. And if I learn how to take those skills and then do that in the context of working with other people, that only gets amplified. And I think a lot of people, a lot of young people, they they learn very quickly how transferable those skills are because I'm a firm believer that if you can if you can do this well, a lot of other things start feeling very, very easy. There's a lot of personal achievement in going through an education like this.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:16:11]:
What kind of things seem easier? Give me some examples.

Weston Sprott [00:16:15]:
Helen, I'll give you an example. You know, being dean and director at Juilliard was is my first was my first full time administrative job. And on one hand, I believed that before I started that I was gonna be able to do this, and on the other side that there was a little there's a little voice on my shoulder that was saying, you know what? You don't really have a ton of experience doing this. You may be walking into something that you're not gonna be very, very good at. But one of my mentors told me, he said learning to play your instrument the way that you did, nothing you ever do will be as difficult as that. And that has turned out to be true. And I'm not suggesting that the job that I have is easy because it's not. However, when when I think about difficult times or things are coming up and I compare that, the the personal private struggle that you have learning to to make something great come out of an instrument, very few things compare to that.

Weston Sprott [00:17:08]:
It it gives you a perspective, and you you have this experience of putting an extremely difficult piece of music on in front of you on a stand and being able to chip away at it incrementally bit by bit over the course of 6 months until you're actually able to make it work. You learn how to scaffold these problems. It's all transferable.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:25]:
I wonder if another skill set that you are able to develop is just maybe, like, your social presence maybe. Because if you're in an orchestra even if you're in an orchestra, whether you have a solo part or whatever it is, you're on stage in front of a lot of people often.

Weston Sprott [00:17:41]:
That's right.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:17:42]:
Does that help develop those skills to maybe be more social, more outgoing, or just more comfortable in large groups? I mean, what what are your thoughts there?

Weston Sprott [00:17:50]:
I think so. If you're an orchestra or in our program, students play in large ensembles, they also play in small ensembles, they also have to play solo recitals. Having to walk out on stage by yourself or just by yourself and with a piano and a hold of the floor for 30, 45 minutes or an hour is an incredible challenge. And just think about how many people have have this this fear or anxiety of public speaking or being able to stand on stage and be able to do something. When you start having that experience for the first time when you're 10, 12, 15 years old and that's a regular thing for you, you're gonna walk out, there's gonna be a 100 people there, you stand there by yourself and you deliver something that you've prepared. That sets you up for life in a significant way. Stand up, explain to people what you're about to play, why it's important to you, and then demonstrate for us what you've learned. Or go in a room with these 3 other people who are about your age, and you all learn together how to make this difficult piece of music come to life.

Weston Sprott [00:18:46]:
You are not holding up your end of the bargain today. How are you going to internally deal with that? You notice something that one of your classmates is doing that you think if they did a little bit differently, the whole product would be better? How are you gonna navigate figuring out the right way to say that to that person so that you all, at the end of the day, can be better, but also still wanna work together? Those those are things that many adults struggle with being able to figure out those dynamics right now.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:12]:
Brother, you are you are bringing the fire. I I I got you pumped up on that part there. It's

Weston Sprott [00:19:17]:
it's just the truth. It's just the truth. It is, you know, and I have the experience of being able to see young people do this every single week, and it and it's magic. Oftentimes, we put we put the microphone in front of our kids and we have them speak about what they're working on, what they're doing, why they're excited about a piece that they're working on, tell us about a project that you put together. And they speak more eloquently and and thoughtfully than than most adults would. It's incredible. It's it's a great source of pride. You know, oftentimes we think about talking about our programs.

Weston Sprott [00:19:47]:
I always think that some of the best spokespeople for what we do are the students and their parents, not us.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:19:52]:
Yeah. That's that's good to hear. And I'm just I mean, my mind is just going about how this can create teamwork, confidence, self self worth. I mean, it could break down, like you said, a lot of barriers. It's it's helpful. Now do students get a grade at the end of of their, I guess, their time?

Weston Sprott [00:20:10]:
Yeah. So our program, like I said, is very much structured similar to the way that a college curriculum would be. Granted we're doing it just over the course of a Saturday, 30 Saturdays a year. But our students go through a very thoughtfully crafted schedule, so they're taking a private lesson for an hour. They're taking a 1 hour class on music theory or your training. And each one of those classes they're attending, they're getting a grade for it. We we take this very seriously. One of one of the sayings that people on my staff have heard me say far too many times is that music is fun, but it's not all fun and games.

Weston Sprott [00:20:41]:
We want you to have a good time, but we also want you to know this is this is a place that has rigor and we want you to be able to learn how to play and do this seriously. And the better you get at it, the more seriously you take it, the more fun you're gonna have because it's it's good to be able to do the thing. But, yeah, students get grades every semester and we have all the traditional things you would think about like academic probation and warnings and stuff like that because we wanna keep our students, you know, we wanna keep them thriving artistically and socially, all those things, you know, behaving behaving well, being good citizens to the community, and also progressing on their instruments.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:21:15]:
Alright. Well, that's good that we're holding them accountable. This is not just a I mean, you're you're chosen or selected amongst however many applicants that are that are coming in your way, and we appreciate you putting in your your best effort online.

Weston Sprott [00:21:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we we have a very community focused way of doing things. So we're definitely not the people where it's like, hey. You struggled in music theory class this semester, so you're out. We we try to identify the students who are who are having a struggle in a class here or there and provide them with all the various resources we possibly can so they succeed and give them as many chances as we as we possibly can. And, you know, the turnover rate that we have in our program is extraordinarily low. The vast majority of students who start in this program finished the program.

Weston Sprott [00:21:57]:
They finished it successfully, and they're happy and their families are happy, and it's it's the greatest thing.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:22:01]:
There it is. Alright. So if we have some folks that are I mean, are they do they have to be in New York area? I think you said that they can be globally. What are the stipulations, I guess, or requirements in order to enter or apply to the program?

Weston Sprott [00:22:14]:
Yeah. The music advancement program is a program specifically for students in the New York City Tri State area. So we have students from New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut. The Juilliard Pre College is a global program. We have kids from literally all over the world. 37% of the students in our program actually have international passports if you can believe it. We have some students who move here just just so they can participate in our programs. So as far as what what's required to enter we we are an audition program we have auditions every every May for entrance starting in the fall of following year so just here in a few weeks we're going to be having audition for students who wanna join us in September.

Weston Sprott [00:22:50]:
And if you go to our website, you can quickly find what all the various audition requirements are for each particular instrument. Every instrument has different requirements and we will we'll be doing that whole process here just in the next month or so.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:23:02]:
Sounds good. Well, you know, I I I'll tell you this, Weston. I've I've learned a lot, and I never thought or considered how developing skills to play an instrument can relate to your relationships, professionalism, personal you know, all these things that can relate in that skill set. I'd love for you to share with us any final words of advice to our listeners.

Weston Sprott [00:23:24]:
Sure. I think especially when you're working with young people, which is something I view for myself as just a privilege to be able to do. As much as you're able, give everything that you can. You have to reserve just a little bit so you can protect yourself L your own mental and physical health and well-being, but give everything that you can. And also one of my favorite sayings, Clarence b Jones, who was here at Joy just a handful of years ago, he was actually a clarinet student many years ago in the preparatory division and went on to be a speechwriter for doctor Martin Luther King. He spoke about how what he learned here helped him to be able to write better for doctor King, to be able to think about the musical cadence in speech. But one of the things that he shared with our community that I thought was incredibly powerful and has stuck with me for the last several years is that you have to love the people you serve. So when you think about the people who are your peers as teachers or members of the staff, your students, their families, love the people that you serve.

Weston Sprott [00:24:21]:
The more and more you do that, the better the better you will be guided, the better your work will be, and the more people will be be down to work with you.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:28]:
There it is. One more time, give us the website, and and if there's any social media that you wanna shout out, go ahead and take some time to do that. How can folks reach you online?

Weston Sprott [00:24:37]:
Just visit juilliard dot e d u and then look for the preparatory division. You'll find it right there on the homepage.

Dr. Sheldon Eakins [00:24:43]:
There it is. Weston, it's truly been a pleasure. I thank you so much for your time.

Weston Sprott [00:24:48]:
Thank you so much.

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