Speaker 1:

Welcome, advocates, to another episode of the Leading Equity Podcast, a podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their school. I have a special guest. Actually, I'm sorry, let me back up. I have two special guests today and I'm really excited. So I have Dr. Shontoria Walker and Andre Ross is here. They are editors of the Culture to the Max: Culturally Responsive Teaching and Practice. I'm really excited. Thank you so much, both of you, for joining us today.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

Thank you. Thank you for having us.

Andre Ross:

Thanks for having us.

Speaker 1:

All right, so I'm excited about our conversation because we're going to be talking about culture management versus classroom management, and I think this is a really important topic. It's something that we have not covered on the show. So Dr. Walker, before we get started, I would love for you to share a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

Yes. First of all, thank you for having me on the Leading Equity Podcast, I really appreciate it. Like you said, I'm Dr. Shontoria Walker, I am born and raised in Houston, Texas. I'm in Texas.

Speaker 1:

I'm from Alief.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

Come on now, that's right down the street

Speaker 1:

Right down the street, okay.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

Right down the street.

Speaker 1:

I'm sorry, hold on. What part of Houston are you from?

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

I'm from the Northside, [inaudible 00:01:17].

Speaker 1:

Aw.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

I know, I know, I know.

Speaker 1:

You know how it is, North and Southside.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

I already know, but I work on the Southside, so I work on 59 and West Park, which is right across from Alief. What I enjoy and what I love about where I'm from is when I started teaching, I was afforded the opportunity to teach in an area that I grew up in at an all boys academy, preparatory academy, on the Northside of Houston, Texas. I never thought I would be a teacher, but when I did get the opportunity, I knew I had to bring a unique perspective. I was told that I was the first teacher to ever teach there that ever grew up in the community, and so that was something real different.

               You know Houston, and if you know the Northside, it's real different. In my opinion, you got to really know the community, you got to know the people, you got to know the culture. I had to do eighth grade English, but I had young boys with massive gaps in reading, some read on second, third grade level in eighth grade. I had eighth graders who couldn't even write their name, which was very unfortunate. A lot of the young boys looked like me, Black males, and I just knew what society could turn out for them. So that was something that really I took to heart and I took some passion. The projection for that year for the state test was 50%, and I tell people this because it's not about the numbers, but it is about the impact with the work that I did with those young men. In my first year, they ended up scoring 81% passing and 14% masters.

               So I knew I did something different, and so I pursued my doctorate based on that. My research focus is using culturally responsive pedagogy to influence literacy achievement for Black male students. Now I'm a coach, I'm an instructional coach. I coach teachers, I coach principals, I coach superintendents. I'm working at chief academic offices and right now I'm doing a summer virtual literacy coach in Philly with the Center of Black Educator Development. I'm based in Houston, but I also get to coach because I really believe you need high quality educators, Black educators, educators of color, to make sure that our babies are being successful. So that's me.

Speaker 1:

Okay, well thank you. I'm glad to see Houstonian, Clutch City, so that's what's up. Tell me a little bit more about this summer literacy program. I know that there's some educators, especially in the Philly area, that might be interested in that.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

Yeah, so it's the Freedom Schools Literacy Academy, they teach the curriculum to summer program, a five week program for kindergartners through third grade. It's with Sharif El-Mekki, he's huge in Philly and everywhere and leading the Center of Black Educator Development, but he's really rebuilding the Black teacher pipeline. So what my heart goes out to, and I love to do that work along with my research focus, is that we're working with brand new college kids who have never stepped foot in the classroom. We're also working with high school kids who may have an interest in teaching.

               So just think that so many first year teachers walk into the classroom first year with no experience, you get a five week crash course, actually getting coaching, curriculum, lesson planning, teaching, and mentoring, because that's what we're doing as well. You get ready for that first day as a teacher in that classroom, you already have a leg up, I would say, in actually staying there and having more tools and skills than just being thrown in the classroom with no resources. So it's really some proud work and this year, from what I understand, they've grown in the last three years, 149% growth over the last three years, which is extremely high and it's something that I respect, I love, and it's exciting work.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, he's doing some amazing work out there. I got to get him on the show. I have not had him on the show. He's on my list of folks that I need to have on, I just have not had him on yet, but he's doing some amazing work and I'm glad that you're connected. It sounds like some very positive things happen. I'll get the link from you later and add it to the show notes so folks, especially in that area, can learn more about the program to be beneficial to the students. Now, Mr. Andre, I'd love to learn a bit about yourself and tell us what you currently do.

Andre Ross:

Yes, sir. So my name is Andre Ross, I'm from Gary, Indiana, but I will get in on that Houston ticket. My wife is actually from Alief, she graduated from Elsik.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I went to Elsik. Yeah, I went to Elsik too, but I only went one year. I went freshman year, but yeah, I was over there.

Andre Ross:

Okay, yeah. So when you said Alief I was like, okay, connection, I already know that my wife is from there. Also, my wife is a co-contributor on the book with us as well and a partner with us in business, so I wanted to give a huge shout out to Alief right there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thank you.

Andre Ross:

But I am from Gary, Indiana, a town that has had a lot of struggles, and I'm grateful to have been able to attend college and move into education. But I was just like Dr. Walker, she said she didn't think that she would be a teacher, I was one of the people that said I would never be a teacher. I think one of the things that I had to do in college was I just got more involved with what it looks like to be involved with students and be involved with education.

               I think out there, I had a chance. My first opportunity in education was working in a nonprofit called Student2Student, and their goal was to help students get to and through the competitive high school process for students in New York City. For those of you who don't know, New York City, to get into a specialized high school there, it's pretty much like a college application process. You got to do the interviews, you got to pass the test, you got to do all of these things, write personal statements. A lot of those things really drew me to education because of the impact and the work I was able to do with those students at that time. It just continued to grow from there, I was involved with mentorship programs and tutoring programs.

               From there, I moved down to Dallas, Texas and began my career in education. I started off teaching in eighth grade math and Algebra 1. I love math and that was a huge passion for me, but I think it was most important for me to take that role and to get into that field because I had never had a Black male educator up to that point in my life. I'm talking through grade school, all the way through college, through my master's program had never had a Black male educator before. So for me to be able to step into that role and not just be a coach or not just be one of the stereotypical things that we have the opportunity to be and the roles that we have the opportunity to play. I got a chance to play a role in a core classroom with my students, and so that was something that was super important to me.

               Through that, after my first year, because of the impact that we were able to achieve, I got voted in as Teacher of the Year by my peers. I think that was one of the biggest accomplishments that I had up until that point, because it's one thing for the students to really connect with you, but I think it's another thing for the other teachers and the other staff members at the school to see the impact and the work that you're doing and say that that's something that's commendable, that's something that's worth rewarding as a first year teacher, so that was huge.

Speaker 1:

You got Teacher of the Year your first year of teaching? I want to make sure I want to make sure I heard that.

Andre Ross:

My very first year.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

I actually think we both did. I got it my first year too, so we both rocking it in the first year.

Andre Ross:

Putting in work, putting in work. It wasn't just about me though, I think I had one of the highest student family survey results in the district, as well as our students achieved 80% passing on the Algebra 1 EOC, and those were seventh graders at that time. I think there was a lot that I just took away from that experience, and being at one of the toughest schools in Dallas Independent School District. I really enjoyed that and that took me all the way to where I am now. I'm an Assistant Principal of Instruction at a middle school in KIPP Texas here in Dallas. So really excited about the impact that we're making there and just some of the other things that I've been able to be a part of with that school system.

               But I'm really excited about what we have with Education PowerED as well, that's something that we've been... This book that we are about to release is going to be amazing and I'm really excited about the work that we've been doing. It's really a culmination of a lot of the work that we've been doing over the last five to six years, just digging into research from Dr. Gloria Ladson-Billings, and Geneva Gay, and Dr. James Banks, a lot of these folks who have pioneered the way for cultural responsive teaching and just thinking through a different lens about how we view schools and how we strategize in schools has been something that's really exciting for me and that's the work that I've been doing for the last several years.

Speaker 1:

That's what's up. It sounds like I've got two all stars on the show right now. I'm excited about this, so let's get into it because I think we often talk about classroom management, that's a word that we hear or a phrase that we hear a lot, one of those bus words or one of those educational related type of things. I remember I was doing a training and someone mentioned to me like, "Why do we say classroom management? Do we really want to manage things?" They suggested maybe community management or something like this because there's more to it than just the classroom piece. There's more to it than just the academic side of what a classroom should look like or what it can look like. So when you talk about the culture management, Dr. Walker, I would love to learn a little bit more about what does that mean or how does it relate, if you will, to classroom management?

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

So I love the fact that, first of all, when you think of classroom management, we are actually getting ready to go in with our third academic school year after the pandemic, and so classroom management actually means something different because you've got the virtual world. You've got to make sure your camera's on, you've got to make sure mics are off, you've got to make sure people are turning in assignments, that's virtual. Then within the classroom, we getting ready to go into another summer where we're going to talk about systems and routines. How are they entering the classroom? How are they leaving? Then the whole premise, especially for brand new teachers, is if you have effective classroom management, then the behaviors will not happen.

               However, we're so focused on the systems and the routines and the procedures, but what about the harmony? What about the culture? What about the climate? What about the environment? Because at the end of the day, especially what I learned with my young men that I was teaching, is that when they respect the culture, when they respect the environment, when they feel welcome, when they value it, they're not going to mess it up. They going to help you actually manage the classroom because this is a culture, this is a place that they want to be, and they want to keep that harmony. That's what Culture to the Max talks a lot about.

               Actually, Danielle Ross is the one that actually has the whole chapter on culture management, where she talks about even going from how you treat student-to-teacher relationships, but then also how are you setting up your desk? Where is your position within the classroom? Are you always in the front of the classroom or are you facilitating the discussions and allowing students to see and hear each other? Are you making them feel like they can come in and be themselves, versus stifling their identity and leaving that on the outside? I think those are misconceptions or disconnections that we have with first year teachers entering the classroom, and I shared this story a lot with my young boys, my teacher preparation program was theory, it was practice. They got your PowerPoint together, you have your questions when you get started. I was ready for that. When I walked into that classroom and I gave those young men my speech and I showed them my PowerPoint, I asked them if they had any questions, their first question was, "Are you leaving or are you staying?"

               I tell people that, every time I tell that story it hits differently because they aren't worried about the content, they weren't worried about what to expect for the year. They were worried about, first of all, they had five teachers leave before me, are you here for us or are you here just to come and leave like many of the other teachers have? Then are you going to accept us for us? So I knew all of this that the teacher prep program prepared me for, I wasn't prepared for that. I had to put that to the side and figure out how do I create a place where these kids feel safe, beyond that they feel encouraged, they feel brave, they want to take risk, they want to be proud and valued.

               We had a torn down bookshelf, the principal couldn't afford to fix the bookshelf and buy more books. It was safe, but I brought in some hammers, some nails, and we fixed up the bookshelf. The boys didn't even want to go toward it because it just looked raggedy. I created something to where they wanted to safe keep that bookshelf. I put books on the shelves where they saw themselves, so now I'm proud of this space. I want to come in, I want to actually read that book, I want to take care of it. I don't want nobody else to tear and tatter the rest of our books. That's managing the culture versus creating... You need the systems and you need the routines, but you also need the kids to feel proud of where they are and feel like that they can be themselves. That's what Culture to the Max, from beginning to end, that's what we focus on and that's why we have the standards.

Andre Ross:

If I can just add onto that, I think that the foundation of what Dr. Walker is talking about and the foundation of culture management is the relationship. How are we managing the relationships with the kids in our classrooms in a way that makes them feel welcome? I think, to your point around fixing up the bookshelves and making the classroom look nice, how many of our teachers actually want to spend their own time in their own classroom? We want to make that a place that people actually would want to come, people would actually want to sit and learn and explore. I think that managing the relationships with your students is something that can take your classroom to the next level. You can know all of the things that you want, but if you don't have the relationship, the students don't know how much you care about them, about their desires, about their motivations, then you're putting yourself back to square one.

               I think that's the crux of culture management, is being able to have relationships that go beyond just the content. When I think about culture management and the impact that would have on a student, I think about a mentor-mentee relationship. When you think about that type of a relationship, the mentee is always looking for ways to be involved with the mentor. How are we creating, through how our classroom looks, through how it's set up, through how we are extending collective responsibility to students in our classroom, collective ownership in our classroom? What does that look like? How does that come through and how our classroom is organized? How does that come through in the classroom jobs that we assign students?

               I think those types of things also were huge pointers for me in my first year is yes, it's important, I knew all of the math, that was the easy part. I think the harder part, and the hardest part, is figuring out what type of culture I want to have in this room and then actually getting people around you that can help you actualize that if you don't know where to start yourself. I think those are the things that the collaboration needs to happen because yes, you can have some ideas, but I think a lot of the culture that's created in your classroom is co-created between you and your students. How are you giving them an opportunity to make sure that they have their stamp, their imprint on the classroom itself, as well as how the classroom runs?

Speaker 1:

I love this. It's funny as I was listening to the two of you speak, it just took me back, I went to historically Black college and I learned theory and practice and all that, but then I went to the Virgin Islands to teach first year straight out of college and I had to learn on the fly a lot of stuff. Kind of like what Dr. Walker was saying, I had those first couple lessons ready to go, my anticipatory set, everything was set up ready to go, but I did not know anything about island culture. I blended in, but as soon as I opened my mouth and start speaking, "Oh, whoa, whoa, you're a Yankee." But I had to learn, and I had some experience, I've shared it on the show before, but I think the part that I missed, and I misunderstood maybe, was the importance of understanding the culture, especially in the community that you are serving.

               We may have some background, all of us were Black, however I grew up in Houston, Texas, and I'm in the Virgin Islands now. So even though there is obviously some relations and there are things that's relevant between these things, but when you are specifically serving a community, a school community, it's really important to understand the culture within that community because it's not going to be the same in Southside of Chicago versus a Black community in Oakland, California versus a Black person in Idaho where I live. It's just those type of things that we have to keep important.

               Now, Andre, you said something I really want to hone on. Well, actually both of you said something I really want to hone on. You talked about the setup of your classroom, what does that look like? Dr. Walker, you mentioned about the desk, and I never thought about this until right when you said that, but tell me more about the desk, Dr. Walker, as far as where a teacher's desk is. Why is that so important? Where should it be, if you will? Just kind of give us a little bit more context.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

So we think about often you walk into a classroom, which is usually the standard setup where all the desks are facing forward, it's facing towards the board and the teacher desk is in the front, and then everything else, and the student working all that is on the walls all the way around. One of the things that I really loved about Danielle's chapter and how she honed in on it, is redesigning the desk, first of all to keep the kids, wondering the students wondering, okay, what is going to happen today? It builds excitement, it builds anticipation. So in my literacy classroom, I would do for random Tuesday, now you come in and now your desk is in a circle, it's in a community, and my teacher desk is now in the back of the classroom because I don't want you to be focused on me. Now my teacher desk is in the back, I'm going to be walking around this circle, but I'm not in the circle.

               A lot of teachers are like, What do you mean you're not in the circle? Don't you have to manage the kids?" No. First of all, we don't get the kids the opportunity to actually see and hear each other. Usually they're facing us, we are the holder and we are the person with all the knowledge, the teachers, they learn from us, but kids need to be given the opportunity to learn from each other, to see each other, to see the diversity, to have the discussion. You will realize how rich and valuable that is simply by putting your desks in a circle. It also is community. It depends on what type of circle you want to do, I'm not saying this is for every day, but I'm saying if you randomly put it in a circle and then you actually think about what type of community am I building here? How am I teaching students how to respect one another's opinion simply by rearranging my desk?

               Another thing we talk about is small groups. So usually if you think about an elementary classroom, we invite kids up to the small group table. But what about rearranging the desk, if possible, because some classrooms have tables, rearranging the desk in groups of four? One thing in that chapter it talks about is putting all of the material in that one little group of four, and those kids are responsible for that one little group. This is my space and I am proud of it, and I'm going to keep it together and I'm going to keep it clean, and I'm going to make sure we stay on task because I am proud of this small little community that my teacher created within this classroom.

               So doing small things like that, you will realize how big of an impact it would have. My classroom didn't have any windows, so one thing that we couldn't look outside and see the sunshine or the rain, but I always wanted the young men in my classroom to know that there is a bigger society than what this whole classroom, what this small classroom holds. I would brought, it's about $20 on Amazon and it's a forest background, and you would be surprised how many of those young Black boys from the Northside of Houston, Texas had never seen a forest. If they had seen a forest, they never really paid attention to it. So now this turns from one piece of me trying to decorate the classroom to a conversation piece. Now everybody is facing the forest, they're not facing me, but now they're having conversations with each other about how this makes them feel, who they are.

               So just the dynamic of taking the teacher off the center and allowing kids... Just by moving the desks, rearranging, it's allowing kids to have those critical discussions and rich discussions, and respecting each other. I think those are the pieces that really bring up the desk piece. I think we got a big old section about the desk and the arrangement, desk arrangement, because we do, we have standards for each piece. So we actually walk you through, in Culture to the Max, the standard of what your desk, how does that represent what is your classroom? Bigger than your desk, but what does your classroom represent based on how you position your furniture?

Speaker 1:

I want to jump in for a second. I want the audience to really listen to what's being said, because the common myth is cultural responsive teaching is only for Black and brown kids. I know a lot of teachers might have already been like, oh, I have predominantly white students, or I have this or I have that in my classroom, and the examples that I've heard, I think would, across the board, benefit the culture of your classroom. You mentioned just putting up a forest background because you didn't have any windows in your classroom, I think that would benefit anybody, whoever, all the demographics that are in your class, and even the way you had the desks and the circle and everything. So everything I've heard was not race specific, and I want to make sure that folks don't just tune out this book or tune out your culture and then boom, race. No, I think anybody could benefit from this. I mean, what are your thoughts, Andre?

Andre Ross:

Absolutely, I think that culturally responsive teaching is for everyone. I think when we implement strategies, or even implement a mentality of what it looks like to build culture in a school, in a classroom, I think it benefits all students because students are now able to listen to one another, students are able to bring their personal cultures, their language, their style of dress, just all of the different things that culture embodies into the classroom. When I think culture, culture is not just for Black folks, not just for brown folks, it's for all of us to make sure that we can make sure that we're learning from one another. That's how harmony and unity is built, is when we all can bring our ingredients to the table and just have a whole potluck of culture.

               That's how I like to think about it in my classroom and in the classrooms that I support, is how are we all bringing everything that we have into this classroom and being able to accept, learn, ask questions, have discussion about the things that we're all bringing? Though they may be different, I may be introduced to something that I might like, so how are we making opportunities for that in our classroom for students, but not just for them, for us.

               Because to your point, I grew up in Gary, Indiana, and so Black culture looks very different there than it does in New York. It was a culture shock when I moved from Indiana to New York. When I think about culture, it's so many different things. It's food, it's everything. I think from moving from Indiana to New York to Dallas, I think that was a mentality that I had going into the classroom, is that, yeah, as a teacher, I also don't know everything. So opening myself up and being willing to learn about my students' culture from them and allowing them to bring that into my classroom freely was a huge point in us having the success that we had in building relationship. So yeah, culture is for everyone. If you can think through that type of a lens, I guarantee that you're just going to benefit your entire class, not just the students in your class that are Black and brown.

Speaker 1:

I can't tell you the amount of times, especially living out here, people will tell me, "I don't have any culture because I'm white." I said, "No, you have culture. There's culture." Then they'll say, "Well, but we're white." I'm like, "What does that mean?" So you have culture, we all do. Now, here's the thing, you said something, I wrote it down, Andre. You said "Potluck of culture." That one, I'm debating if I want to even put this as the title of today's show because I've never heard that phrase. Tell me a little bit more, as far as kind of where that's coming from.

Andre Ross:

Yeah. I think when you think about a potluck, you think about everybody is bringing the best that they have to the potluck. When you bring to the potluck, you want to have the best mac and cheese at the potluck, you want to have the best fried chicken at the potluck. So everybody is bringing the best thing that they have or the best thing that they know that they can create. When I think about a potluck, I think about people bringing the best for all of us to be able to enjoy. There's pieces of our cultures that are beautiful but also very unique that needs to be tasted and tried by everyone. How are we being open enough to make sure that everybody can bring their best? Is it because our classroom is not safe enough?

               People kind of draw back, if I don't feel comfortable at the potluck I'm going to, I'm going to just going to bring the drinks, I'm going to bring the paper plates, I'm going to bring the silverware. But if you create a space that's safe enough, I'm going to actually go into my kitchen, I'm going to roll up my sleeves, and I'm going to bring the best that I have for you all to try because I know that this piece of me is not going to be judged so harshly. When I'm thinking about a potluck, the people that I'm inviting to my potluck, I really want them to be there and I want them to bring their best. So when I think about potluck of culture, that's how I think about it. I'm like, let's all bring the best thing that we have, the best ingredients that we have, the best parts of ourselves to our classroom for us all to be able to enjoy together. I think it just came right off the dome there to think about what that means.

Speaker 1:

So don't bring in boxed Kraft macaroni, that's not the best.

Andre Ross:

Oh no, [inaudible 00:30:23].

Speaker 1:

I want to make sure I'm clear, I want to make sure I'm clear.

Andre Ross:

[inaudible 00:30:25].

Speaker 1:

I've been to a few. I've been to a few potlucks out here, Kraft macaroni has been on the table, I just want to make sure.

Andre Ross:

You definitely need it baked.

Speaker 1:

Okay, got to bake it, got to bring your best. If it's not your strong, bring in the plates and the drinks.

Andre Ross:

Yes.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Dr. Walker, did you want to add to that?

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

Yeah, so I think about taking that reference all the way back to the kids, I think about the doors, the threshold, that's the opening to your potluck. How do your kids feel when they put that first foot into your door? The reason I say that is because there are some kids, if you really pay attention and you observe, they kind of feel like they have to take off this cloak of identity before they walk into that first, before they put that... Like Andre said, I want the people in my classroom, I want the people in my potluck to be there. How is the teacher making the student feel like they can bring theirselves? Going back to the classroom management, how many times are we telling kids to sit down, be quiet, don't move, don't talk, don't speak, hush, especially with boys? Don't hit, don't run. How many times will we tell them don't do and not allow them to do and be their best, and bring all of that.

               I'm opening my door wide. If I can knock down another part of it and allow you to bring your whole self in, that's what I want in this classroom. Then when I create the environment, and the harmony, and the unity, and the pot luck world, and you feel comfortable enough bringing that in, what type of impact will we be able to make based on that? That's just something that makes us more excited in our Education PowerEd world with our company and everything, because that's what we try to get teachers to see within our trainings as well. It's like, yo, you've got to let these kids be themselves. We're not talking about something as surface level as hoodies. You get teachers talking about, "Well, they need to take their hoodie off." You're talking about dress code and I'm talking about mentality, I'm talking about mindset, I'm talking about comfortability within this classroom. That's how deep that I feel like this potluck culture world should go within the classroom.

Speaker 1:

Here's a question, Dr. Walker, I want to throw it back at you because when you say being an authentic self, and I agree, a lot of our classrooms have these protocols that says this is how you turn your paper in, this is how you walk to lunch, this is how you go to recess, this is how you line up for recess, this is how you do this and you do that, so a lot of our kids aren't being themselves. It wasn't until I've had the fortunate pleasure of working on a reservation out here as the Special Ed Director, and just watching the kids at powwows and watching him dance in their authentic clothing, I mean, I learned about the different categories of the different dances and the judge and the drums and just the fellowship, and I'm like, these kids, this is what the kid is actually like? This is what Johnny is, this is his actual self, versus what Johnny looks like in the classroom or in the hallways or at school.

               So I started talking about, if you see your kids outside of the classroom, you see them in their neighborhoods, in their playgrounds, doing their thing, being them, being with their family and how they respond. I mean, how many times have we had parent-teacher conferences where you tell a parent about their child and they're like, "Who? Whose child is this? Because that doesn't happen at home." So I want to ask you a little bit more about, give me some examples, Dr. Walker, of what allowing a student to be their authentic self looks like in the classroom.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

So one thing I just go back to Reader's Theater. I used to do Reader's Theater, this just took me straight back to that, in my English literacy classroom, and it was something that was not really looked to as an instructional strategy that would benefit young boys in the eighth grade. That was just the honest piece about it. Readers Theater, you're a English teacher, you should be teaching content and they should not be... But what I found the beauty in something like Reader's Theater is it allowed them to express themselves. So some of the readings that we had, it was written, we all know literature, it was written a certain way, but our kids have a specific dialect. Everybody's going to say this same word very differently, but because we're in a English classroom, we have to make sure that we pronounce it right and we have the right phonics and fluency.

               So I'm going through that, but the reason why it brought me to that is because in Reader's Theater, those young black men was able to express their thoughts and their mindset without fear of being told to sit, without fear of being told that you can't do that. If it was an emotional part in the book, they expressed those emotions and Dr. Walker did not tell them not to. I didn't tell you not to cry, I didn't tell you not to feel. I let you be your whole entire self. Then if it was a portion in the book where they were able, like you said, to dance, and they chose rap instead of Mozart, I let you do rap instead of Mozart because that is where you feel your most comfortable self. Now, I'll talk to you about Mozart and then I'll let you choose. We talk about elevating student voice and student choice, and then this is how you made the connection to the classroom.

               So it's one of those things where Reader's Theater, it's something that elementary students to do, but in eighth grade it allowed my students to physically, kinesthetically move. Me and Andre talk about this a lot, doing gallery walks and allowing students to get up, to listen, to feel, to view, to move. Then you will actually see, like you said, even the dance and the way they moved, and then the expressive way that they actually told you about themselves and told a story about where they come from without saying any words, Reader's Theater within my classroom is what allowed them to do that and I appreciated it because my young men leaned all the way into themselves.

               This one is a little near and dear to my heart, but I will tell you, if you've heard of the artist, Kehinde Wiley, he recreates media, the way that Black folks are portrayed in the media, within a classical art form. He's the one who did Obama's portrait. I have his book and I took that to the classroom, and my young man actually recreated that. It was a very emotional, vibrant classroom, because if you think about how are young Black boys portrayed in the classroom, I mean portrayed in the media, and then how is that affecting them emotionally that we allow to stay outside of the classroom, that we don't really talk about too much. So I actually allowed them to express how they felt without any words, and it was so powerful.

               It was something that was so meaningful that still gives me chills today, but we don't allow them to do that. We tell them to sit and be quiet and don't run, and so things like that I feel like is where you get to really beyond movement, beyond expression, bringing your whole self and really, really connecting to the world right on a deeper level. It's something that I'm happy to say that a lot of those kids I stay in contact with, many of them went to college and they were not projected to go, many of them are in the workforce, and I would like to say that my eighth grade classroom had something to do with that.

Andre Ross:

If I can just add onto that, I think that last piece that you mentioned, Dr. Walker, just brought two examples to my head as well. When you think about authenticity, we live in the world, and I think a lot of times we have to keep that at the forefront of our mind as well when we're going into classrooms, that things are actually happening. We have real life events that are affecting our teachers, real life events that are affecting our students, and the space that we are creating in our classrooms for those emotions to come out authentically as well are important.

               I think one of the hardest days in the classroom for me, regardless of your political opinion, was the day after Donald Trump was elected to office. It was one of the most polarizing days in recent history. We taught Black students, we had Latinx students, and they came in with real feelings, real fear about what this meant for their families, what this meant for their future. For me to just come in and talk about slope all day and rate of change, would've been very tone deaf. So how are we creating space to be authentic in our classrooms, at least for a few moments, where students can collect their thoughts, for students to be able to express how they feel, for students to express the different things that are going on in their lives?

               I think that's also a part of being authentic and allowing students to be authentic in our schools and our classrooms, is treating them like human beings, like there are things that are going on that affect them, and allowing spaces for them to be able to express those things appropriately, efficiently, effectively all of those things, but we still need to be creating space for that. Another example that I have of this is an example I talk about the a book in authentic engagement, but I think it's connected as well because we were at a school, a public school in BISD, and we had the opportunity to have Betsy DeVos come to our school and visit. It was a very interesting day. I mean, they shut the school down, but you know, the whole city-

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

It is Texas, though. It is Texas.

Andre Ross:

Secret Service and everything.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

That makes sense, okay.

Andre Ross:

You know what I mean? But I think it was really cool that one of our partners, and the actually the founder of Education PowerED, David McDonald, in his classroom he did not even speak directly about Betsy DeVos, that wasn't the point. He created an assignment where his students wrote a speech about leadership, 30 seconds about what leadership means to them. We have all of these public officials who are elected into office, some appointed into office, and they automatically take on these leadership positions. So he had his students actually talk about what leadership means to them, and not only that, he gave them a space where he had students bring in their permission slips so that he could go on Facebook Live for his students to actually have a platform to talk about what leadership means to them, and they did that while Betsy DeVos was at our school doing her tour and talking to our leaders, and all of these things.

               It was cool because those students, again, regardless of your political opinion, that's not what it was about. It was about giving students a place where they can be authentically themselves and giving them a platform to be able to talk about what that leadership means to them. I think the more that we give students an opportunity to express themselves in that way, the more authentic our classrooms will be, the more authentic our students will show up, the better our classrooms will be an experience for students come to fruition with those feelings and those ideas authentically.

Speaker 1:

I'm glad that you mentioned the importance of allowing kids the space, and it's hard, especially during these times, because things happen in our communities, things happen on a national scale. Then right after that, a school or principal, whoever, someone issues a statement, "Don't talk about this in class. Don't mention this in class, stick to the books," because of the fear of parents and school boards are coming at you, and I get all of that. But your example with Betsy DeVos, like you said, no matter what your political affiliation is or your beliefs and all those kind of things, that's allowing the students the space to talk about what leadership needs to them. I mean, that to me is, I don't know if neutral is the best way to say it or bipartisan. I don't know, whatever the best phrase, but that to me is an example because I get people, teachers that talk to me all the time like, "Man, I did an implicit bias thing in my English class and wasn't five minutes later the principal's walking down the hallway asking me, 'I just got off the phone with a parent.'"

               But because of all the stuff that's happening in our country, I would just put it that way, which causes a lot of fear, but a lot of teachers do want to be able to create that social justice mindset for our students. I mean, we have future police officers in our classrooms, we might have a mayor in there, I don't know. Well, we have public officials that will possibly be part of our future, our next generations. If we do not take the time at first grade, take the time at fifth and sixth, seventh, eighth grade to instill that information about these are things that are impacting the community and what are some ways that we can do better at our early age. I mean I hate when we just focus too much on academics and not think about the social aspect and emotional aspect of our students, so I'm glad you brought that up.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

I think a piece of that is we think that it should be and. I'm going to teach content and social justice. I'm going to teach content and talk about the community. What we talk about a lot, and urge teachers to do, it's not and. You're doing it, do it within, put it within the curriculum.

Speaker 1:

It should be built in, it should be built in.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

It should be embedded, and so that way it can be a part of the learning versus I got to get to this and it's a checkbox. Then because it's so disconnected from the academics, because kids got to take the test, we know this, we know we have to do academic achievement, but we also talk about rigor. We also talk about how this does not take away from the curriculum. We actually are pushing to embed this because it adds the rigor, it adds academics to it, versus it being the and. When it gets to an and, if I don't get to it, then I've gotten a whole academic year under my belt again and I never addressed it, and that's a big issue.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that goes back to Dr. Banks' work on multicultural education because he talks about how teachers that think that they're doing multicultural education, but they do those add-ons, it's like, okay, I'm going to teach a lesson on World War II, and then I'll teach a whole lesson, and then I'm going to do a special lesson just dedicated to the Red Tails or just dedicated to Japanese internment camps, or something like that. So you're still centering folks with European descent and then you're adding on, or here's a special lesson, or by the way, did you know George Washington Carver was an inventor of color. Here's all the other inventors, none of them look like George Washington Carver, but we'll just give a special lesson just dedicated to our folks of color.

               So I'm glad that you brought it, it should be embedded. People think that it should be an and, but no. When you do that and, you often unintentionally are centering white supremacy or you're centering folks of European descent, as opposed to really thinking about the importance of talking about it from a multiple perspective, bringing in different perspectives of people's experiences and telling their stories. So I'm really glad that you highlighted that, Dr. Walker. Now, I consider the two of you as providing a voice in leading equity. I'm going to start with Andre, I'd love for you to share maybe your final thought that you want the audience to take away.

Andre Ross:

My final thought is to show up in your classroom with an open heart. I think that too many of us come into education and we have our own agenda that we want to come across, and we have our own goals, and we have our own things that we are trying to do. I think all of those things are great, but one of the things that I've learned is to just be open. Be open enough to learn from your students, be open enough to learn from the staff members who have been doing this type of work, but also bring your voice. I think that in everything, and especially in education, it's important that we have our minds on how we can innovate, have our minds on how we can create new ideas and new ways of being, and doing things as educators and teachers.

               Those are the types of things that I want all educators, as they enter the field or if you've been in 10, 20 years, continue to leave yourself open to learn, because I know that in the past couple of years there's been more and more research being done on culturally responsive teaching, more and more articles coming out, more and more books coming out. To continue just to leave yourself open to those things and to try something new, take some risks, because it's going to be worth it. We are literally bringing up and educating the next generation of leaders. Like you mentioned, we might have the next president in our classroom, we might have the next police chief, we might have the next mayor. So what types of opportunities do they need to be practicing in our schools, in our classrooms, that are going to help them get to that next level? Keep those things in mind and don't be afraid to step outside of the box. Those are my final thoughts for you all as we leave.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. Dr. Walker?

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

Yes, so my final thoughts go back to culture management. We said culture management versus classroom management, but I need for everybody to understand that culture is bigger than the classroom, it spills out into the hallways, it spills into the cafeteria. It should be leading the school, it should be leading the district if you are creating harmony and unity with your educators. Think about how are we walking into these schools and these classrooms, this work is demanding. I tell a lot of people, this is hard work, this is hard work because a lot of people are not here for the money because we know how education is. We're still fighting for funding. But you have to understand that we talk about authenticity, the only way our kids will be authentic is if our teachers are authentic.

               The only way our teachers are authentic is that there is a space by the school leadership that is created for our teachers to show up as their whole selves. Then the only way our teachers and our school leaders can do it is if there is a district culture that is created to say that you guys can show up and be your whole self. It's a lot of work to do, it's very ambitious, but just know that it should be leading versus the other way around. We want academics to come, rigor is going to come, success is going to come, but if I don't feel like I belong in this space, and I'm not welcomed into this space and these doors aren't open for me to be my whole self, I'm going to back back. I'm not going to give you my all because I don't want to be here.

               Think about how many educators are actually in that space right now and they're really just showing up on their last leg just for the teachers because they really don't feel like they're welcomed from the top down. That is something for us to think about as we move forward, as we are leaders, as we are teachers, it goes from the classroom, but it is really a all imposing piece of how we should be managing and how we should be moving forward to welcome ourselves within these classrooms and allow us to be our full everything.

               Education PowerED, we've been together, I've been with this group for two and a half years, and we've only been in person two times, I believe. However, we have been online and we create a culture online that this is my family, these are my people, because we practice what we preach. If we're saying it should be happening in classrooms, it should be happening with us and our company, it should be happening in the buildings. Think about how much less stress you have when you feel like you can put that guard down and be who you are, and I think that's important in every level of education at this time, especially with everything that's going on.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, amen. Well folks, listen, I hope you have enjoyed this conversation, I definitely have. I've learned a lot, took a bunch of notes. Potluck of culture, coining that to Andre. Andre, if we've got some folks that want to connect with you, what's the best way to reach you online?

Andre Ross:

You can reach me on Facebook at Andre Ross, MED, or you can reach me on LinkedIn as same name, Andre Ross, MED.

Speaker 1:

Dr. Walker, what's the best way to reach you online as well?

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

Yes, you can reach me on Twitter at Dr_SWalker, and you can also reach me on LinkedIn at Dr. Shontoria Walker as well. You can reach all of us at Education PowerED on all platforms, with a E-D at the end. So yeah, that's where we are and that's how you can find each one of us.

Speaker 1:

Okay. Well, again, just to reiterate, Culture to the Max: Culturally Responsive Teaching and Practice. Dr. Walker and Andre, it has truly been a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time.

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

Thank you.

Andre Ross:

[inaudible 00:52:54].

Dr. Shontoria Walker:

Thank you for having us.

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