Speaker 1:

Welcome advocates to another episode of the Leading Equity Podcast. A podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their schools. Today's special guest is Akil Parker. So without further ado, Akil, thank you so much for joining us today.

Akil Parker:

Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1:

Pleasure as always. I'd love for you to start off by sharing a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Akil Parker:

So currently I'm an adjunct Math professor at Cheyney University located in Pennsylvania. It's the first historically black college and university, even though some people from Lincoln would say that they're the first. But then some people from Wilberforce University would say that they're the first. So I guess it just depends on who you asked.

               I'm the founder and CEO of All This Math, LLC, which it started out as a private math tutoring company. But I guess in a larger sense, we're an educational services company, trying to really change the relationship to a more positive one between math and the black community. That's our main focus or our main thrust. Also I'm a father, father of three. You'll see my ... actually all of my children in some of the videos on our YouTube channel. And my children actually have informed a lot of my teaching over the years. I've been a high school math teacher in Philadelphia for 16 years before becoming an adjunct professor here at Cheyney University. And before it even started, starting a company. But, yeah, so definitely fatherhood and teaching go hand in hand to me.

Speaker 1:

I agree. I agree. I'm with you on that fatherhood and teaching. I mean, that's what we do. And so happy to hear that. I'd love for you to kind of talk to us about some of the things that you see working with black students in math. What are some of the trends that come across your way?

Akil Parker:

Well, there's a lot of ... I think we don't see ourselves in math. I think there's due to our socialization process, whether it be in former schools or in mainstream media and just in our communities. We don't see math as a viable tool that can help us to advance. We see it as something that's only reserved for certain individuals or really something for white people or Asian people or Arab people. And that's one of the things that I'm trying to push back on. Because I saw that as a student growing up, I've felt that way at times as a student in my K through 12 experience at times.

               For the most part I did well in my math courses, but math is kind of seen as something to avoid. It's marginalized and I think a lot of that, it gets reinforced by parents, as well. Like I said, the community makes us feel like math isn't for you, it becomes like this self-fulfilling prophecy. You sit in a math class, the teacher introduces new material, a new topic, and you don't fully understand it after the first example that they put on the board. You feel like, "See, this isn't for me." When it's like, we would never approach anything else in life that way. Whether it be sports, a video game, cooking a dish. Like math is like this brother I met recently, he said something, I was very profound to me and it really encapsulated a lot. He said, "Math is like the only thing where there's this expectation of perfection on the first try. And if you don't experience that perfection on the first try, then you just feel like, I might as well just throw in a towel. It's not for me."

               But it's definitely a conditioning. There's a fear that's kind of inbred in this and promoted. I agree with the late Doctor Amos Wilson, and that there's a political necessity for black children, especially, to not perform collectively well in mathematics, in order to maintain the status quo.

Speaker 1:

So what needs to change? You said you've had your personal experiences in math and I know I have, as well. I mean, what are you doing to change that stigma? That black kids, math is not our thing, it's not supposed to be our thing. I mean, what are some of the things you're doing on your end to change that mindset?

Akil Parker:

So one of the things I'm doing is like, I'm really trying to build out this YouTube channel and create this online platform and also using social media, just to kind of broadcast and show myself. Like, here I am, I'm a black man. I utilize math on a daily basis and I'm trying to also show how other people utilize math on a daily basis. I've done some interviews with some people from different walks of life and different careers, where we just focus on like math and like how to you use math in your career or your job? Or how to use math in your entrepreneurial endeavors? Or how do you use math just in your everyday life? There's also literature that I'm going to be publishing and putting out to do that.

               But also, I think in terms of us really changing, like for the long term. The creation of independent African centered schools, where the young people can see the real value and the real necessity. Because the way things are set up now, like in United States and in Western society, we're under European domination. So as long as we're under European domination, it's really, those that dominate us are dictating what we're here for and what we're useful for. So if it's prescribed by them, that we don't need black people to really go into STEM [inaudible 00:05:39] and be trained in STEM, then we won't. And then, there's all the propaganda that surrounds that in order to maintain that status quo.

               So, once more of us decide to move in a more independent, more nationalist type route. Then the educational systems and really all the institutions that are life sustaining will follow. And we'll start to look at math differently, we'll start to look at science differently. We'll start to look at studying the English language differently. We'll start to look at everything differently, because we'll look at it from a space of, okay, we have to do everything for ourselves anyway. So more of us have to develop mastery and proficiency of these things.Whereas now, since we're not in control of these things and these life sustained institutions, it's like, well, somebody else is going to do it anyway. So I don't have to master this thing. Well, we don't have to master this thing because we can rely on other people to do it anyway.

               So I think that's something, a much larger concept in terms of like, I guess into the politic of just how we exist as a people. And of course the education will follow that. And I think that's something that, as a community, we should have larger conversations about. Because oftentimes we end up trying to fix something I think is not even broken. Like this educational system is working very efficiently to do what it has intended to do, which is to maintain the status quo. And if the status quo is that large amounts and large percentages of black boys and girls will not excel in mathematics and that helps to maintain the society, then that's going to continue.

Speaker 1:

I would agree. And one of the things that we talk about sometimes is ... well, not sometimes. I hear this conversation a lot, it's regards to getting more black teachers in our teaching force. And I think that makes a lot of sense and I would love to see more STEM black teachers, as well. There's just not as many as I would like to see. And so I think that's part of it, as well, is just recruitment and retention of our black educators I think is important.

Akil Parker:

So, I can agree with that. In theory, it sounds good. I just hope that like we dig deeper and we're making sure that we're not ... again, I got to quote Amos Wilson, that we're not just putting people in position that are just going to be the black faces of that same white power that has served to maintain the status quo and maintain our oppression. Because we see that whole adage, [inaudible 00:08:14]. It's that type of thing.

               So I just hope that, as we're recruiting black teachers and putting them in public schools or charter school positions. I'm hoping that they're doing good work to actually dismantle those systems. And I hope that they have a long term goal of, again, moving toward independent systems that we control and that our communities actually are able to control. Because it kind of reminds me of the late Dr. John Henrik Clarke talking about the curriculum of inclusion, which had its value and he understood that it had its value. I mean, he did a lot of work to help develop the curriculum of inclusion for people of African descent. But he also understood that it can be problematic when you're trying to put clean water into a dirty glass. And we don't want to put clean water into a dirty glass at the same time.

               So I think that as like a stop gap measure, we can recruit more black teachers and more black STEM teachers, which can be helpful because that's where our students are right now in large part. But I think we have to also maintain a long term goal of, there being some type of Exodus. Because I also believe that's the only way that these schools will really improve because that's the only way that they'll be a real incentive for those at the top, to really make a change is if we actually leave. But by the time we leave and we have independent schools set up, a network of independent schools, whether it be on a national basis or a global basis, then it won't matter. You can make the schools more appealing and embrace the humanity of children of African descent all you want, it doesn't matter. Because now we have our own schools anyway, so we don't need you. It's like it's too late. And since I think that's the only way that it's going to happen, then that should just be what we do.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So, I would say this, I mean the reality right now in 2022, man, I think the last time I checked the stats, I want to say our education force is roughly 83% white and then there's a small percentage ... I should do the math, I guess, a 17%, I guess is people of color. In my audience, for example, it is primarily white educators, which makes sense when it comes to the statistics in education field. If we have some math teachers that are white, what type of suggestions would you throw out to those who are trying to reach more black kids in their classes?

Akil Parker:

So I think that I would want for them to try to embrace the history of African participation in mathematics. And try to be very mindful of how, politically, a lot of black children can sit in the math class and feel marginalized and not see themselves in math. You grow up and you go through these different math courses and you learn about different formulas and theories. And even something as simple as learning the Pythagorean theorem, you know that Pythagorists was a Greek person. But a lot of people, we don't embrace the fact that Pythagorists actually studied in ancient Kemet, under the African tutelage for 28 years. And then he becomes back, in the Ahmose Papyrus, the Ahmose Rhind. Ahmose Papyrus where A square plus B square equal C squared is originally found.

               So I think those conversations have to happen and those things have to be exposed. If you're a white teacher and you want black children to not feel marginalized in your math classroom or in your STEM space, then you have to show them. And not just as footnotes and the experience of European history. I think we also have to consider that, as well. That's the first thing that comes to mind. I mean, I think that's a really good question. Something I need to think more about, like what would I want for white STEM teachers to do that are responsible for teaching black students?

               Beyond that, try to recognize the culture of the students that are in the classroom, in terms of where they're from, the different ways that they can utilize ... and actually, not the different ways that they can just utilize mathematics or algebra or geometry. But the ways that they already are utilizing it. Because there are a lot of ways in which it's already being utilized, but the student themselves don't really recognize that. And oftentimes a lot of the ways in which it's being utilized and has been utilized over time is in itself marginalized or is seen as something ghetto or seen as something that's like not favorable. And I think we have to start looking at those things in order to meet the students where they are and let them know that, you've already been doing this, this subject and this topic and this school discipline is not as foreign to you as you may think it is.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. When you're talking about Pythagorist, it reminded me of a really good book that I read a few years back called, Stolen Legacy. And it talks about how a lot of the Greek philosophers, your Socrates, your Plato, Aristotles, Pythagorists, [inaudible 00:13:48] all these different names. They did study a lot of the Egyptian mystic systems and they learned a lot. But of course, they got a lot of credit for creating all these different philosophical or mathematical things. But when we think about the pyramids and how they were constructive, when we think about a lot of wonders, if you will, that black culture doesn't always get in that conversation. And it's often a lot of credit is given to others.

               And, we're recording this on February 1st. I mean, February is Black History Month. And I'm not a big fan of tokenized events and holidays. But I do appreciate that we do recognize black culture during this month, but I always try to say, black history was yesterday, it's every day, it's going to keep going. And we shouldn't just save all our content and material for this one, 28 days out the year or Dr. King holiday or something like that. I love that you said, there's ways that we can try to connect with our students, even if we don't have the same background as our kids that are in our class. But I always say it's very important that we keep them in mind and we're not looking at them as others. They feel included and feel like they belong in your classrooms, as opposed to feeling like they're not part of the group, they shouldn't be here. They're the only ones that have the same identity.

               I want to ask you another question, in regards to math. Because I get this question from a lot of math teachers, they'll ask me stuff like, "Well, how can I be culturally responsive in the classroom? And if it's math, all I do is word problems. Or all I do is formulas and equations." What type of response would you give to a teacher that feels like being culturally responsive is not something that mathematics can foster.

Akil Parker:

Well, I think that's the outgrowth of this fundamental belief that's often unspoken that the STEM disciplines in and of themselves are apolitical. That's just incorrect. I think that the STEM disciplines are just as political, if not more political than all the other disciplines. Because you're still dealing with people, even in the word problems that a teacher creates. There's a decision that goes into like, who's in the word problem? Like whose name is used, what culture is being represented? What activity is taking place?

               And I also don't mean, I also try to push back on people, just kind of doing this like cosmetic, culturally responsive pedagogy. Where they just take a typical word problem from Eureka math or some Pearson textbook and just change the name from Sally and Johnny to Rahim and Keisha. That doesn't really speak to embracing like the experience of the students in the classroom. So I think we have to really know like what their background is, what their experience is. I mean, math is really a story. Just like in English class, it's more explicit, like, okay, we're reading stories, we're reading different books and analyze the text. But math is really a story, it's just math is a language in and of itself. And with mathematics, we're telling a story about a situation, that's all a word problem is. Word problem's a story about something that's happening. And we're really trying to predict what's going to happen. So we're really trying to use some type of hypothetical thinking to predict what will happen if these conditions are in place.

               This is how people live. This is our lived experience. Like in certain communities, in certain areas, there are conditions that are already in place that we can then say, "Okay, well, if the conditions are like this, then what is going to happen?" As a result, what's going to happen a year from now? Two years from now? 10 years from now? So we talk about Cartesian plane and right there, Descartes, we're paying homage to Rene Descartes. So, even though Africans have used the coordinate plane system as well, that's another opportunity to say, "Okay, well, we call this the Cartesian plane because that's one interpretation. That is one perspective." From a Europeans perspective, we can say, "Okay, we can give a nod to this French philosopher and mathematician Rene Descartes." We can do that.

               Or we can go to another culture and say, we can use the African cosmogram, and get into the work of ... who is it? The late Dr. Fu-Kiau and his work, dealing with different cosmologies and whatnot. But, it really just depends on like who's telling the story and from who's perspective it is. And it's okay for there to be multiple perspectives. So I think in terms of being culturally responsive, I think we have to kind of get away from kind of like the monotheistic approach to education, where there's only one way to do this.

               Because that reverberates through the educational process and the educational experience and what it leads to is a student will be in sixth grade and learn a certain skill in one way. And then they'll go to seventh grade and they'll have a different teacher in a math class. And then that teacher will attempt to teach it in a different way. And the student will have a meltdown. The student have a meltdown and say, "Oh my God, no, Miss. So-and-so didn't teach us like this." And then you have to tell them like, "Well, it's okay. We're not taking anything away from Miss. So-and-so that taught you in the sixth grade. But what we're actually trying to do is give you more options." But again like that universality, or like I say, that kind of monotheistic approach to education where we feel like there's only one way to do this. It creates problems.

               And I think that also ties in neatly with a kind of like a Eurocentric world view of, this is the only way that it's done, this is the only way it should be done and it has been done. Which marginalizes everybody else that doesn't come from that culture and doesn't embrace and practice within that culture. And it also motivates people to try to assimilate into something because they believe ... or into a culture because they believe that that's the only one that's valid and that has value. Which also creates a whole host of other problems.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I would agree. And the thing about what you mentioned as far as how it can continue on and marginalized folks. I would love for you to ... maybe if you can give an example as far as maybe a word problem. Because I agree, I mean, just changing the names of the word problem, like you said to, to Rahim and Keisha, that doesn't necessarily mean that is culture responsive. So could you give us maybe an example of what a word problem could look like? Maybe at the high school level.

Akil Parker:

So let's say we're talking about ... I don't know, like algebra dealing with ... let's see, linear equations. Perhaps like systems of equations. We want to calculate the different amount of like what a number of tickets will be sold for an event. If the adult tickets have a certain price ... this is like a typical system of equations word problem. There's an event, adult tickets are a certain price, children's tickets are a certain price. And then you could easily just, okay, if you know your students, then you consider, okay, well, what type of activities do you actually deal with? Do you actually attend or should you be attending, or would you like to be attending if they were available in your community? Instead of like a typical textbook like a Pearson textbook, [inaudible 00:21:52] or whomever, Saxon textbook, whatever publisher. Which may just say, well, in the suburbs of middle America, this is what's taking place. We're going to do word problems based on that experience.

               And to an extent, like in and of itself, there's nothing wrong with that. Because that's speaking to a certain demographic of people. The problem becomes when other demographic of people, a classroom full of black students, they're not being spoken to. So it's the experience of that certain demographic in suburbia, white suburbia, that's being super imposed and being forced upon those black students. And it doesn't even have to be an issue of socioeconomics because you can take a place like Prince George's County, Maryland, where the largest concentration of black folks with money probably, in this whole country. But they still may have different experiences. Those young people there may have different experiences and do have different experiences than students and young people in white middle class suburbia.

               So we can speak to an event, like back to that system of equations word problem. You can speak to an event or some type of concert or something, or some type of gathering. Where there'll be ticket sales, maybe it'll be a fundraiser for some activity or for a larger activity at a school or something in the community. And speak about it in that way. And we're using the same math, but politically we're speaking to the students in that community. That's one example that comes to mind.

Speaker 1:

Okay. That makes sense. Now, you've mentioned a couple researchers that you followed and I'd love for you to share maybe some of the resources that you would recommend. Like if there's books or just authors that, again, if I'm a math teacher and I'm wanting to learn more about being maybe more responsive or creating an experience that's more engaging for our black students. What type of resources would you share?

Akil Parker:

So I mentioned earlier, Dr. Amos Wilson. So Dr. Amos Wilson, he has a catalog. He passed away in 1995, I believe. But he has a large catalog. One of his books is more ... longer books is the Blueprint for Black Power. There's also ... what else? Awakening the Genius in Black Children. It's another book, Awakening the Genius in Black Children. There's also the Developmental Psychology of the Black Child, that he wrote. Several other books. He has a book where he talks about Pan-Africanism, but he kind of frames it where he's discussing Marcus Garvey like in the context of Marcus Garvey. I forget the exact title of that book, but it's essentially anything Amos Wilson wrote. Also, I mentioned the late Dr. John Henrik Clarke, anything that he wrote. Also both of these people, you can find a lot of their lectures on YouTube for now. There's still a lot that are up on YouTube. Which kind of gives you a ... it's a different experience when you're listen to somebody lecture, you're kind of talking about the work that they've written anyway. Those are people.

               But in terms of math, also more ... excuse me, specifically. I would like to kind of shout out the work of Bob Moses and Charles Cobb. I'm sure you're familiar with Radical Equations. Where Bob Moses and Charles Cobb ... Charles Cobb is still living, Bob Moses transitioned last year, I believe. And one of the things that struck me when I was introduced to his work back in 2009, it really helped me a lot as a teacher. Because one of the things he said was ... and he was a SNCC member, Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee member back in the 1960s. Ended up getting a degree in mathematics and was a mathematics teacher for a long time. And also did some work with community education, started a program called the Algebra Project, which is utilized in Baltimore and in some other school districts.

               And one of the things he said was he said, "Mathematics education is the civil rights issue of the 21st century." And when I read that, it resonated with me because I could see how mathematics is really the gatekeeper to a lot of opportunities. And it's kind of like this unspoken thing when you consider like, even people that do end up going to college. A lot of people choose college majors based on what type of math requirements the major has. So there are a lot of people among us that are really brilliant, highly intelligent people. And will make great engineers, will make great computer sciences, will make great architects. But those majors require a large amount of math coursework. And a lot of people, so again, have been socialized to have a fear and trepidation connected to mathematics.

               So they say, "Well, no, I can't do that. I can't meet the criteria to work in that field because I can't jump through the hoops. I can't do the math course. Or at least I don't believe that I will be successful in mathematics because I wasn't very successful in high school and in middle school overall." And that makes perfect sense, because again, we're talking about the maintenance of the status quo.

Speaker 1:

Okay. Those are some good resources and I'll leave some links in the show notes for folks if they want to try to find some of those lectures and some of the publications that are out there. Akil, I definitely consider you as providing a voice of leading equity. What is maybe one final word of advice that you like to provide to our listeners?

Akil Parker:

Another thing, as a community, we have to like take more responsibility for the education of our children, of our own children. And also feel more comfortable with doing that. We shouldn't be intimidated by schools and school systems and teachers. And as parents, you shouldn't feel that you're not equipped to educate your own children just because you don't have an education degree, you shouldn't feel that way at all. And also, this is another reason why I started the All This Math YouTube channel is to provide that type of support. Because it's very easy for me to stand up here and say, "Okay, parents should take more responsibility for the education of their children."

               But that has to also be combined with a resource or resources that are provided so that, it's like, well, I want to ... let's say you're a parent, your child's in the 10th grade and they're taking geometry. And it's like, "Well, I want to help my child with geometry, but I don't know geometry, though. I don't remember geometry. I never excelled at geometry." Well, the All This Math YouTube channel is so not only for young people to go on and get homework help. And not only for teachers to use as a support for their classroom content. But also for parents to be able to say, "Okay, well, everything's on YouTube University nowadays. Like now I can even go learn and feel comfortable learning from somebody that's given a simplified explanation of transversales and alternate interior angles, and corresponding angles and the centroid of a triangle. And all these different types of things.

               So, I can do that and then I can help my children with their homework. And we can kind of enhance and kind of maintain that family bond that is established when your child's in elementary school or in kindergarten, they come home and everybody's like sitting at the dining room table doing homework. And the mom and the dad is sitting there helping. But once you get to like middle school, you get to a certain level. It's like, "Ah, I really don't think I can help you anymore." So I want to try to continue that trend of us being able to help our children with homework.

Speaker 1:

[inaudible 00:30:07] if we get some folks that want to connect with you, what's the best way to reach you online?

Akil Parker:

Online, so Instagram at All This Math @allthismath, all one word. Or at Facebook at All This Math. Yeah. Yeah. Also, there's the website, allthismath.com. You can send a request or just send a message on the website. Instagram is probably the best way, Instagram direct message @allthismath. The website, like I said, you can send a message, allthismath.com. Even Facebook, Facebook is at All This Math, as well.

Speaker 1:

Sounds good. And again, we'll leave the links in the show notes so that folks can reach out and connect with you. Akil, it is truly been a pleasure. I thank you so much for your time.

Akil Parker:

Thanks for having me on, man.

Are you subscribed to the podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. Click here to subscribe in iTunes!

Now if you enjoy listening to the show, I would be really grateful if you left me a review over on iTunes, too. Those reviews help other advocates find the podcast and they’re also fun for me to go in and read. Just click here to review, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let me know what your favorite part of the podcast is. Thank you!