Interviewer:

Welcome advocates to another episode of the Leading Equity podcast, a podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their schools. Today, I got a special guest, Dr. Lauren Shallish is here with us today. So without further ado, Lauren, thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.

Interviewer:

Pleasure is always mine. We're going to get into talking about supporting our foster care youth, but before we get started with that, I'd love for you to share a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

I am an Associate Professor in the Department of Special Education Language and Literacy at the College of New Jersey, also known as Trenton State. I teach courses on critical disability studies and DisCrit, which is Disability Studies, Critical Race Theory in our School of Education.

Interviewer:

Nice. All right. Well, welcome again. Let's get into it. What are some of the things that you would suggest that folks that are educating our foster youth... What are some things that we should know that you've noticed in your experience?

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

Sure. I often hear in schools and in the larger community children being referred to as foster kids. And that framing sometimes condenses them down as a monolith or as a clinical category, which I tend to think more broadly like, no, it's just children or young adults who've had experience with the foster care system. Because the children that I've known as a resource parent and my time working with the division, that the children are varied. There's no one uniform experience that comes with engaging with the foster care system.

               And I also do that to kind of disrupt some of the moralizing judgments that come with that label. I think the dominant perception of kids who've had experience with the foster care system is that their family is dysfunctional and they have to be separated from them at all costs. They're perpetually and generationally impoverished, which... Issues of poverty may be certainly part of the child's experience, but to put the deficit labels and thinking on that is where it becomes problematic.

               I think the dominant perception is also that they are Black and Brown because of the ways the system itself is racialized. But I think if we can expand that knowledge and that understanding, we can do more to support the family, not just the youth. Because also there's a perception that for kids who have experienced foster care, that their parents are nowhere in the picture. But their caregivers, their family, is very much in the picture because of the changes both nationally and on state levels that have kind of taken place over the last 20 to 30 years. And disrupting that narrative, I think is a really productive one and can help with the healing and the reunification, which is always the goal.

Interviewer:

Okay. That makes sense. What I heard initially was the deficit language and even how we label our students and we're calling them foster kids. I like how you framed it with students that have... Say it one more time, as far as like, what is I guess the correct way to address a student that has had experience in foster care?

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

Yeah. Generally, just they're children first and foster care is second. So a child who's had experience with foster care or been placed in foster care, anything like that, but recentering the child and their family first that they're not defined by the system.

Interviewer:

Children who have had experience in foster care... And I love how you said that they're kids first. I think that's one thing that we have to hone on. And it doesn't mean that they're less intelligent, doesn't mean that they're less able or any of those kind of things. And sometimes we do tend to go into a deficit mindset because, oh, well, we see that this child has had some experience in foster care. One of the things you mentioned was that you are a resource teacher or resource facilitator. Break that down for us. What does that mean?

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

Oh, yeah. That's like the fancier word for foster parent, I guess. And some of the language has changed over the years too with regard to that. And there's a lot of different positions within the foster care community. So a resource parent or a foster parent is someone who is an employee of the state, so the Division of Child and Protection and Permanency here in New Jersey, for example, and they are licensed by the state to care for children who are in the foster care system.

Interviewer:

Got it. That makes sense. Okay. I was like resource what?

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

It's also, something we learned going through the process is when you're getting licensed as a resource or foster parent, it's actually not you that's getting licensed, it's your permanent address. So, the training that you would go through, they don't really ask you about parenting techniques, or child rearing, or social, emotional development. And this isn't a slam against anyone, but I remember thinking, "No one asked us if we will love them, or what family means to us." The questions were about, "Do you have two forms of egress in each bedroom? Each child is required to have a dresser and your hoses have to be coiled." And they told us to walk around on our hands and knees and see what we could grab. You can't have extension cords, things like that. So it's really about the licensing of your permanent address in order to be a resource parent.

Interviewer:

So can I ask you a personal question? What brought you into... Why did you want to become a resource parent?

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

Well, I think kids are great. My husband, his parents had been foster parents growing up. So he talked about that experience being really formative and it shaped his views on community, that it really is a communal responsibility to care for and raise children. And as we've become parents ourselves, we've realized we can't survive without that support. All families benefit from that. We can't do parenting or child rearing in isolation. So we've thought of it in that way. That it's a way to be part of a larger community, working to support local parents and kids.

Interviewer:

Okay. And I've had some family members that have also become foster parents or resource parents as well. And I always, I remember growing up and being able to meet some of my uncle's children that they were having at the time, so limited information or limited experience, but at the same time, I see there's a lot of value in that.

               Now, when we think about school, and a lot of us are still online right now, I guess my next question would be, what are some tips? Some of our students that are experienced in foster care, are they kind of in and out of different homes that we should be mindful of when it comes to maybe online education and how that worked? What are some of your thoughts there?

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

So glad you asked that. There are about 420,000 to 430,000 kids who are in the foster care system currently. And about 21% of urban youth who are in foster care have access to a computer, and that's 5% or less for those in rural communities. So access to technology, especially in this dual pandemic climate that we're in, is essential for learning, and for teachers or educators who are thinking, "I can't just go buy a child a computer," schools are providing those supports, but also the division within the state or local government that oversees foster care provides those items for children. So it would just be a matter of contacting the child's caseworker.

               Students also have ... in the state that I'm in, someone called the court appointed special advocate. But for different parts of the child's life, they are a mentor or a sounding board. So they'll have a CASA worker for school. So that would also be a point of contact for the teacher or the student when it comes to those kinds of resources.

               Children, thanks to federal legislation in the late 90s, well, prior to that, there were no real uniform, predetermined limits or any federal guidance on how long kids would be in the foster care system. So what was happening like in the 80s and 90s was kind of a groundswell, and any question about abuse or neglect, which are the two reasons that a child could be removed or placed in foster care, but different agencies were just pulling kids out of family homes if there was any question or maybe a subjective decision about what was going on in the home. Then kids essentially were languishing in foster care for years, or until they aged out at the age of 18 an older could sign themselves out.

               But federal legislation, the Adoption and Safe Families Act in the late 90s put term limits on foster care and said that a child, that permanency is always the goal as is reunification with the birth parents. Second to that is what they call kinship or placement within a home of a family member, a close relative, or a neighbor, or loved one, maybe even a family friend or close friend at school, they would also have to be licensed just like a foster family. Then after kinship comes foster or resource homes, and now there are limits on how long a child can be in foster care. And generally the guidance is 12 to 15 months. It can be up to 22 months, but after that time period, a child, they have to plan for permanency. The idea is that would guard against children kind of just moving around the foster care system or in and out of different homes.

               One of the side effects of that is that, depending on different reasons for removal, which we can also talk about, that timing doesn't always coincide with the parent or a family member's current situation. So in an extreme case for a parent or family member who's been incarcerated, the decision about their sentencing is likely not going to consider the issue of foster care and permanency in placement.

               So you can see the complications that could arise from that where some kids are being put into adoptive homes when they do have a parent or family member who is capable of caring for them, but because of mass incarceration and how this is targeting predominantly urban centers and Black and Brown families, we see how this system of care can be racialized and is racialized, which I know people are also working on, but I think these are some of the current issues that are going on.

Interviewer:

Okay. So you said racialized, and I don't know if you have any statistics available, but as far as our communities of color, what are you seeing as far as foster care? I guess, let me back up, because I guess the question that I want to ask you is, as far as resource parents go, do we see a lot of resource parents of color? Are we lacking in that area? Are we seeing not as many resource parents of color, but then we see a high population of children that are of color, and is there a mismatch that you've noticed in your experience?

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

There's definitely a mismatch, and I know investigative workers in the foster care system are careful and attentive to that, in my experience. It's about 40% to 50% of kids in the foster care system at large are Black and Brown. I would say this comes from the ways that we surveil and systematize families of color, especially those in urban centers. The goal is always now reunification with the birth parents. If that goal can't be met in the near or immediate future, the second prospect and goal is to keep the child within the family and that close network, so that's the kinship piece. So that also has some attention to racial dynamics and ethnic backgrounds and cultural traditions.

               I would say though, foster care is different in every state. Each state has different kind of mandates for licensing and reciprocity. So like we have a friend who's a resource parent in Washington, DC, and there's reciprocity like with Maryland, but not with Virginia.

               And one of the child's birth parents lives in Virginia, so there's some dynamics there. In the state that I'm in, it's County based. So everything is around reunifying the child with the birth parent, if they can't do that, it's kinship placement. If they can't do that, it's with a resource or foster family, but all of those different tiers would ideally be within the County or the city or the community where the child is. So there's the least amount of disruption to their life. So if they are in foster care, if they are removed from their parents' home and there are different types of removals as well, they would still go to the same school. They would still see their friend groups. They could still go to the same church or religious organization, afterschool programs, things like that. So the consistency is there. Prior to the federal legislation and really focusing on kind of county-based services kids were moving all over the place.

               The goal is always reunification and supporting the birth parents. So they say that to us in training as resource parents or foster parents, that you're supporting the birth parent. Though, their child is in your home, but the service you're providing is to this larger family. It's not just isolated to the child. So we try to frame it as we're a family forest, not a family tree, which might be a little cheesy. So we're a family forest, not a family tree. And for the kids that we have come to live with us, we frame it in a way that all parents love their kids. If some parents need help keeping them safe, they can call us. And we would love and support any child that stays with us as long as they need. And that your parent is doing everything that they possibly can, and we're supporting them in that journey.

Interviewer:

We talk about ... because I have some friends that have either adopted and they have children that are of a different race, and one of the things that I always encourage is families to allow the children to get to know their culture. I don't know if you've had any experience where you've had some foster youth in your care that were of a different race. If so, what were some of the things that you did to try to be as culturally responsive as possible?

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

I'm so happy you asked that. So I'm white. I identify as white, I'm perceived as white. The kids that we've had in care have been Latinx and Black and Brown. So we also have two of our biological children who are white, and my husband's also white. And in the training, there's not a lot of support around thinking about that cultural traditions, background, racial identity, right? The history, the community, the cultural and linguistic wealth. So that is something that, as a resource parent, you do have to seek out and educate yourself.

               A majority of resource parents in my experience have tended to be white, and there is a big religious tradition or focus on fostering. A lot of recruitment happens in different ways in various faith traditions, but in churches and some of the discourse is about kind of saving wayward children.

               But as far as supporting and growing and centering their cultural, racial, ethnic background, it is a learning experience. And you're not given much information when you get a phone call about a child. And depending on the type of removal, there's not a lot that they maybe can tell you. But one of the beautiful opportunities that have come from this is the conversations that we've had with our children's birth parents in big and small ways about haircare and bathing and clothing, some of the essential items, schooling, but also what lullabies do you sing? What stories do you share? Who are your ancestors? What do you celebrate? Who do you honor? And ensuring that children in our home also have space to ask for what they need. I don't claim to be an expert on their cultural background, racial identity, but that we can create and hold space to share those things and learn from each other.

               And in other small ways, we make sure that our children don't feel isolated when we are going to the library or going to a park. We make sure that they see themselves represented and reflected in all the places that we go. We're intentional, really intentional about where we grocery shop and run errands and the businesses that we support, things like that, where they go to school, the books that we read, the pictures on our walls and most of all, how we communicate with their birth parents. And that's been a wonderful opportunity. While there is some anonymity, for the children that we've had in care, we've never met their birth parents. We've engaged over email or through the caseworker, and we'll send artwork and notes and different updates and pictures in that way and open up the conversation there.

               And that has been wonderful for the children in our care, because visits can be really hard for kids. Of course. Right? So one of our daughters had visits three days a week. And coming back from that is really tough, coming back into this house and wondering, "Why can't I just stay there? Isn't everything okay now?" And the experiences and the communication that we've had with her mother allowed us to share more stories about her and hold space for her and our own house, so it didn't feel like our daughter always had to pick a side, right? So like, "Oh, you just get your mom time. There's your one family tree over here. And then you got to switch gears and go to this other one. We can exist in this space together." So I like to think it was a nice, also invitation to her mom to share some of that with us and to kind of build that trust.

Interviewer:

And I love how you said one of our daughters. So is that the language that's utilized in the home? "You're my son. You're my daughter," Is that how you typically refer to them?

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

Yes, we do. I've done a lot of learning in places I didn't expect when I became a resource parent. So like, you'd be at the grocery store and someone says, "Which ones are your real kids?" Or, "Who's your real kid." People at the grocery store will say, "Who's your real kid?" And we'll say, "Well, I don't have any imaginary kids." There's a great book on that too. It's called a family as a family as a family, but we've also tried to normalize for our kids the fact that families exist in endless ways, right. So kids parents divorced and got remarried, there's any number of family formations.

               And while you're here with us, I think of you like a family member, you have two mommies in this case when I'm thinking of my last daughter, you have your mother. And I have like a secondary name, so I go by mama Lolo sometimes. So it's easier for younger kids, or I let them decide the name they want to call me. And I also ask them if that's okay for us to say, if I refer to you as our daughter so-and-so, or if there's another label, that kind of thing. So we have that reciprocity and relationship building, and I don't claim to know how they want to be referred to, and vice versa.

               And also to also normalize the fact that their birth parents matter very much, you don't have to pick a lane. I'm a bonus or in addition to, and we just try to normalize that and point it out whenever we see it, because there's not a larger cultural narrative about fostering, other than saving wayward children, which is really problematic. The narrative that we ascribe to is that there are lots of ways to be a family, and endless ways to raise children. And that that's a community responsibility. And what we tell the kids that we've had in our home is that we're helping house. There are helping homes all over our streets and in our neighborhoods and parents love their children. If they need help keeping them safe, they'll do everything they can to be reunified. And if that doesn't work, they still have a safe place to go.

Interviewer:

They still have a safe place to go. I like that. I guess I want to transition back to school. So as a resource parent, what are some of the things that you do at home with your daughters or your sons to ... you get a new child, how do you get them ... make sure that they're all caught up, they're good to go, you have everything that you need in order to support them on a school side?"

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

We've actually just had really young children, because one of the ... when they're thinking about placements, they tend to not place kids in kids who are older than any existing children in your home. So our oldest is basically five, so we've had kids five and under. So I haven't had experience so much with schooling, but I have worked in schools in different settings and with kids who've spent time in foster care. And what I've noticed is that they've been disproportionately clustered in special education systems and placements or discipline referrals.

               So this is the approach that I've taken to it. My training is in critical disability studies, which is different from other fields that address the topic of disability like counseling, like rehabilitation, like special education, because the field is of and by and for people with disabilities. And the trend that I've noticed over my experience, I've worked in higher ed. I worked in the office of special education, the district office with an incarcerated youth program, is that the distribution of kids who were in or had experienced foster care was really disproportionate. And that by and large schools regard them as bad or sick.

               So what I mean by that is we have these general and special ed reforms like PBIS, which I understand the movement toward this to address the issue of disproportionate suspensions in schools for kids of color, especially. But PBIS is built off of a public health triage model, which seems like a dangerous prospect to me for schooling that we can't save everybody. There's always going to be someone on the margins. That's always where I found kids currently in foster care or kids who've spent time with the system.

               In my experience in schools and in higher ed, kids who've experienced foster care are bereaved more than anything. It's traumatic, it's waves of grief, confusion, blame. They may blame themselves for this coming upon their family, and a feeling of constant uncertainty, because it really is disruptive to be in foster care and schedules and visits and permanency plans and caseworkers and right. All of that, those meetings happen frequently, change all the time, moving around, right? Updates, court dates, meetings with judges, things like that.

Interviewer:

Are there any funding for school? Cause you mentioned there's, what if a child doesn't have a laptop, doesn't have a device or they enter a home and it doesn't have internet access? Those kinds of things. What type of funding may a school seek out in order to, or is there any funding that's available for schools that can support our students that are experienced in foster care?

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

The short answer is the division of child protection and permanency, it has different names in different states, can always support school supplies, access to technology. If it's an issue of internet at the home, that can be done through the division. So it's either the teacher contacting the caseworker, having the social worker do that. Any communication there can be taken care of. That's meeting the child's basic need, obviously the resource parent too, but that's the easiest solution and most immediate, there are always different state and local grants.

               Another, there are many local organizations for resource parents that we've used that will offer small grants to support the student's wellbeing, educational attainment, even extra curricular life. One family had hoped to get a basketball hoop, and they bought it for them, right? So it's just a matter of there tends to be within each County an agency that supports resource homes and resource families. And that can also be a way for teachers, a place that teachers can reach out to, to get that kind of support.

Interviewer:

I have thoroughly enjoyed learning more about the foster system, if you will, and what it means to be a resource parent and some ways that schools can support our youth that have this experience. I'd definitely consider you as providing a voice in leading equity. Is there any final thoughts, one word of advice that you could maybe share with the rest of our listeners?

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

One thing that I try to tell my students is that any child you work with has an ocean behind them. They're our lives. They're our ancestors, they're our experiences. There's no way we could ever possibly capture the depth and the complexity of children's lives. For kids who are in foster care that, like any other child is also the case. But the narrative that we've often led with about foster care is the child's trauma. And as a society, and sometimes in schools, we tend to pry into that in a way that can be maybe invasive or retraumatizing. And to only stay with the trauma doesn't tell the whole story of who the child is, which isn't to say ignore it and pretend like it didn't happen. But it's in that ocean of experience that we all have.

               And rather than swimming down toward that pain and that loss and that grief, we do have to go somewhere with it. So to not strand ourselves there, not have that be the only story that we tell about kids and their families, to remember that the birth parents and their family will always be in the picture and to reinforce the idea, "This is temporary. You will be in a space that's safe. Our goal is for it to be with your birth parents or birth parent, if that can happen, you can stay with us. But there's a lot of people looking out for you and we're not going to stay here. We're going to keep it moving. And I need you to tell me which way you want to go." But if you just stay adrift in this big ocean and the kids have, and you don't give them choices and you don't think through them options and you don't let them tell their stories, you're just going to be sitting in this vast ocean, like, "What do we do?"

               And that it is a long ... to really be bereaved, especially as a young child. So the median age of children in foster care is six and a half, and to be bereaved and experience that kind of loss and not see that narrative represented and reflected in our schools or larger society, if there's no way to process that, it just translates into grief all the time. So I would say to educators too to name it, not in front of everybody, but to find ways to connect with the child and to reinforce the idea, "I know you're going through a tough time and that your family is going through a tough time. I want to be one of the people that works with you and supports you and that I love you."

               And you have to say things on repeat, right? It has to be a constant reassurance, because the experience is so volatile and ever-changing, you have to be a broken record. Like, "I see you. I love you. I know you're here. You can ask for what you need." Kids in foster care aren't always given that opportunity, but to also know that and to talk to them about their parents, because sometimes the assumption is, "Oh, if they're in foster care, they don't have parents," but of course they do. And families take shape in any number of ways. But to tell a different story, like [inaudible 00:35:29] talks about, who I know as a guest on your podcast, but [crosstalk 00:35:33] yes. To ask the question, what's good here? And to go from there.

Interviewer:

Yeah. I've got her book right here, and I use it. I use it all the time. She's awesome.

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

I just would drop that book out of like an airplane everywhere. She's phenomenal. Phenomenal.

Interviewer:

She is. So, Lauren, if we have some folks that want to connect with you, what's the best way to reach out to you online?

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

I'd love to hear from anyone who would like to reach out. My email is Lauren.Shallish, S-H-A-L-L-I-S-H, @tcnj.edu.

Interviewer:

All right. There it is. Dr. Lauren Shallish is here with us. Thank you so much for your time. It's been a pleasure.

Dr. Lauren Shallish:

Thank you.

 

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