Dr. Sheldon Eakins: (00:00)
Welcome, Advocates, to another episode of the Leading Equity Podcast, a podcast that focuses on supporting educators with the tools and resources necessary to ensure equity at their school. Today, I have a very special guest with me, someone who has known me for over 36 years, and there's not a lot of people that can say that. But I want to bring on my dad. My dad, Dr. Lewis Eakins is here with us today and we're going to be talking about trauma, but we're going to be talking about trauma in a sense of how that impacts our lockdowns, our lockdown drills that we perform at our schools. So, without further ado, Dr. Eakins, thank you so much for joining us today. 

Dr. Lewis Eakins: (00:44)
Dr. Eakins. Thank you. Thank you for having me on. 

S. Eakins: (00:51)
Sorry. It's funny to say Dr. Eakins to each other. So, Dr. Eakins, before we get into some of the questions that we have today, could you share with us a little bit about you and your experience with public safety, law enforcement and things like that, please? 

L. Eakins: (01:08)
Yes, sir. So basically, I've been doing this for about 35 years now and I've been doing quite a bit of work in the K-12 environment. I do training for the Department of Education to help schools work on their emergency operations plans. And in this, you know, in this type of planning phase, we actually talk about active shooter drills and lockdowns and things of that nature. And so, my experience also involves working on a campus -- a campus of higher ed -- where we had a K-12 school there, and I worked with them on their plans, their drills, everything that has to do with the safety of their schools. I was involved in that. And again, I've been doing this for many, many years. You know, I hate to say 35 years, but -- hey, it's been 35 years plus. And so, I enjoy doing this. I enjoy working with schools. It's a real passion of mine. 

S. Eakins: (02:13)
And you actually helped me out, too, when I was a school principal and you helped me put together our emergency management plan. I'm on a school board at a local school here and I know you helped them out as well and they -- I know they followed your recommendations and they immediately -- I think you made some suggestions on some entryway access and how to be more secure and they went ahead and did that as soon as possible. So, I know that you have this experience and I've been wanting to have you on my show. I always felt that we had two different niches and so I'm glad that you're on because, what sparked this conversation that we're having today is one of my former students from my teaching through a culturally diverse lens posed a question in our private Voxer group. 

S. Eakins: (03:06)
And she basically asked me, you know, here's the scenario: So she's a second grade teacher and she has a military background. She heard lockdown, the lockdown announcement over the, you know, in the Intercom or whatever their protocol is for that. To make that announcement because there were gunshots near the school. So she gets into her, you know, her former military mode and she reacts to the situation and basically she's, you know -- and it's not just her, but it's, you know, the school, everyone's getting -- everyone rushing -- the kids into the classrooms and pulling parents in, and all of this is happening because of this lockdown procedure that is happening. So, she asked me a question because it was something I had never really considered -- are we the ones sometimes perpetuating trauma in our students? I mean, we had little second graders that were there and she's throwing them into the room and other teachers are grabbing kids and all this is happening. And some of the kids, like, there's a student in her classroom that's crying, and she can't get her to stop crying because they're scared, because of the reactions of our teachers. And so, I wanted to bring you on the show to talk about -- okay, how can we not traumatize our students with drills and even actual lockdown situations? What are some things that we need to be doing? Like, what are your suggestions based off of that scenario of how that could have gone a lot differently? 

L. Eakins: (04:40)
Okay. Well, basically, the actual first question that comes to my mind is, was that teacher properly orientated to the lockdown protocol? Meaning that that teacher understands what "lockdown" really means. Because, oftentimes, we will use these different code words like "code blue" and "code red," "lockdown, lockdown, lockdown." But what does that mean? What does that mean to that teacher? Was that teacher trained on that? And what is the protocol that you follow? And also, you know, when we think about our school districts and our schools, we have to consider that, oftentimes, we have visitors on our campuses. We may have a teacher conference; we may have other types of conferences going on. We may have those who English is not their native language. And just the terms, just the different cultures that we are in, you know, the extra term lockdown came from prisons. 

L. Eakins: (05:41)
It came from prisons. And then now we're using it in our schools. And I don't have a problem with that, but we have to understand the culture that we are working in. We are dealing with students. So, the first question is, did that student -- did that teacher understand what lockdown means. And then secondly, were there counselors poised and prepared to address trauma informed care? Trauma informed care is very critical now for an actual lockdown or a lockdown drill. But now, going back to your question, oftentimes, we are doing more harm than good with our lockdown drills and even an actual lockdown. We have to make sure that the teachers and staff are calm because the students will feed off of us. So, if we are excited, if our voices are raised and we are looking like we're in a panic, then, naturally, our students, who look to us for guidance, especially our younger students, they are going to panic, as well. 

L. Eakins: (06:45)
And this is how people get hurt. So basically, even when you do a drill, you don't have to have this much realism as you think that you really need. And I prefer they have a progressive exercise or drill to where you first have a tabletop, then a functional, and then you may go to a full-scale drill or a full-scale exercise. Because I have seen students traumatized, teachers traumatized, and staff traumatized. I've seen injuries happen because everyone's rushing, and people are tripping. And I've seen several reports, recently, of teachers filing lawsuits against the local police because of the trauma and injuries that they have sustained and worst of -- well, really not worst of all -- the suffering that we always have to be taught -- just enough -- is the bad publicity. When we have something like this that goes south, people are going to be outspoken and they are going to speak to the media about how traumatized they were. 

S. Eakins: (07:57)
Wow. Okay. There's a lot of things that I want to touch on with that because I think one of the things that we probably should do is, you know, discuss maybe the differences between a drill and the actual situation. Because I know that this individual was, you know, this was actually happening, like there were gunshots near the school. And they didn't know necessarily where they're coming from. So, they locked down the school versus the drills like -- kind of how you talked about kind of a progression where you start here and then you kind of go there. What are maybe some differences -- because we want, like, if something happens, we want to be able to respond accordingly. I remember a time when, you know, people would do lockdown drills or fire drills and they would do it like in the situations of, you know, kids are already in class and you'd give the teachers the time and you said "It's going to be around this time. 

S. Eakins: (08:55)
This is when we're going to do the fire drill or the lockdown drill. This is when this is going to happen." And how that's not necessarily a natural protocol. Right. And so then I know we've done in the past, at my school, where it's like -- okay, I would do the drills right when kids are at recess or during lunch time, like, in transition times of classrooms, from class-to-class kind of thing to try to, you know -- not every lockdown or not every situation is going to, you know -- we're just sitting there waiting for something to happen and then we can just quickly close the doors. Right. Dr. Eakins. So, I guess, can we -- can you share with us, maybe, some differences when it comes to the drills versus the live situations and any additional tips that you might have there? 

L. Eakins: (09:48)
Okay. So, first of all, let's be very, very clear that drills and exercises and all these things, they are meant to test your emergency operations plan or a portion -- or a segment -- of your emergency operations plan. And I have gone to exercises and drills to where there was no plan present. They just wanted to see, okay, how are we going to do mass care for this active shooter -- the event -- how are we going to do counseling? And so, they'll go through it, and it may be a tabletop exercise where you're sitting in a classroom or around a table. You have a person who is the moderator and they're saying, "It is such and such time on such and such day. And we just got a report. What do we do?" And then everyone sits around and talks about what should they do? 

L. Eakins: (10:44)
Okay, now it's 10:46 and, so the situation gets worse and worse, basically. And then, I've been -- and then you get to the point of the part that you want to test. Okay? So now the children who have been traumatized -- who do we call for counseling service? How do they get -- where do they go? Where's the counseling? And we can't have it here at the scene. So now it has to be offsite. All of these things come up. And so, you're testing your plan. Dr. Eakins, when you don't have a plan and you just want to do a drill, then you lose the actual benefit. Because, after the drill, you have what's called an after-action review or report. That's where you come back together. Those who have been, who have been designated as evaluators for the exercise or drill, they come back in and they've talked about what they saw went well and did not go very, very well. 

L. Eakins: (11:43)
And so that's the first thing. And then once you have these, they have to be planned. And you brought out a dynamite point that your exercises and drills should consider all times and all days. So, if you have it while they're in their class, that's great. But what about at recess when everyone or half your class after school is outside, how do you get them back in? Who calls them back in? Where do they go? Who accounts for every student? And then you have to think about after school care, and then you have sporting events, which could be at Friday night. You may have different programs on Saturday, Sunday. So you have to look at the different times and when classes are changing, so you hit on a very vital point about, we tend to do these very sanitized exercises to where everyone is sitting in their classrooms and they're waiting for "lockdown, lockdown, lockdown," and then they go into lockdown mode. 

L. Eakins: (12:50)
It has to consider all times. And then, I say, that even though you may have an actual lockdown situation, your drill should be with the same intensity, meaning that you can still say, "Alright, children, let's get into the classroom right now. Or for those who are in the hallways, go to your nearest classrooms." So, your plan should actually take care of all times at all places, not just when our children are in the classroom, but when they're in recess and there should be a loudspeaker saying, "We're now in lockdown. I need for all students to immediately come back inside." And then that's when the teachers who are out there can get them inside and start putting them into the right classrooms. And then just knowing where the threat actually is. Okay. So, if the threat is inside the school building, you may say, "Lockdown. Everyone stay outside of the school building. So, it's really -- you know, as I'm talking, I'm just hoping that this point is coming across. You must have a plan that you are testing with these drills. 

S. Eakins: (14:05)
And I liked how you said that you must match the intensity. As a former basketball coach, myself, I mean, I used to always tell my players, "We practice as we play." My wife, who has military background, she said that they used to always say, "You train as you fight," right? Because you don't want to have this -- like you said to sugarcoat it, you know, this is what we do. And then the kids are goofing around. Like, I've seen these things, right? But the reality is, when that moment is there, we can't like -- all the little games and the fun times that we had with, you know, "Oh, I don't know why we gotta do another fire drill, kids. You know, that's what the principal's --" like, those situations are -- we need to take those so seriously, and -- like you said -- match that intensity. Otherwise, we're going to end up with traumatizing our kids or something even worse if something was to actually happen. So, thank you for sharing about that. Now, let me ask you another question -- because you and I were talking before we started recording -- because one of the other members in, you know, of my group, my Voxer group, had asked a question, kind of related to ALICE Training and you had some thoughts on ALICE Training, so I would love to hear if you could share that with the listeners out there. 

L. Eakins: (15:23)
Yeah, sure. You know, I think that the ALICE Training is a very good program. I know that it came out of the state of Ohio, and it's a very good program. They have lots of resources, but there are also several other protocols that work, and so, you know, there's the run-hide-fight. Of course, fight doesn't really do well with, you know, those who are in first grade, you know, so you can't teach them how to fight. So, there's that protocol. There is the alert training. So, there are several different protocols out there. So, I don't advocate one over the other. I'm just saying find one, Dr. Eakins, and use it, find it, learn it, use it, practice it, and test it, and then revise. So, it's plan, test, revise, plan again. 

L. Eakins: (16:25)
And so regardless of what protocol you use, they all have their merits. You know, I tend to use one with a shorter acronym, like run-hide-fight. And you do need to modify that for grades, you know, K through nine, maybe. But the ALICE Program is a great program. Many schools use it throughout this nation, but I tend not to endorse one program over another. I say pick one, use it, and follow it. Because that's the main issue here, is that -- it's the same thing with having a plan. And so, one of the worst things about not planning, Dr. Eakins, is having to explain why you didn't. So, if you have a protocol and you don't follow your protocol, then you are opening yourself up to be civilly liable. And so, find a plan, stick with it, and follow it. And make sure that your emergency operations plan is operational. 

L. Eakins: (17:27)
You know, oftentimes, I see plans that are sitting on a shelf. They are used as bookends or they are measured with their -- they are measured by how many pages there are. I've seen plans that were 800 plus pages. I've seen some that were like 50 pages and the 50-page plan was more relevant than the 800 pages, because you could go to exactly what you needed to find out. So, if your plan says, "Have a lockdown," then who can call for the lockdown? Is it the principal? Is it the superintendent? Is it the teacher in their classroom over the loudspeaker? And then, if you call in the incident management team, who calls them? Where do they go? Who unlocks the actual door for them? Who gives them radios? So, all these things have to be in our plans and once we have a plan, then we can test them through exercises to enter it. 

S. Eakins: (18:24)
How often do you suggest that those plans are reviewed or -- and do you maybe even have, like, a recommended page count? 

L. Eakins: (18:35)
No, I don't have a page count because plans need to be scalable. They need to be scalable based upon if it is a charter school, that it's a single building, or a school district with multiple high schools, middle schools, or a school district, with only one high school, one middle school, and so forth. So, I don't recommend a certain page, it's just that, if you're going to have a 600-page plan, then, on that cover sheet, it should say if this is an emergency, go to page 62 so they can go to that page. And then, I would also say, that when you are dealing with plans, they have to be reviewed annually. Why, Dr. Eakins? Because things change, personnel change. And your plan should not have names, they should have titles in there. It should not be "Dr. Lewis Eakins will then call for the -- call to the superintendent." It should be the principal or the superintendent. And, oftentimes, buildings are repurposed on an annual basis. So, your evacuation assembly point may change from year-to-year because the football field now has been repurposed to build a new stadium so you can no longer use that. And so, therefore, it's critical to review the plans annually and make changes where needed. 

S. Eakins: (20:10)
Thank you, Dr. Eakins. So, let's shift gears just a little bit because I want to know from more of the research side of things, what have you seen as far as different protocols, maybe, when it comes to different settings of schools? So, like maybe schools that are in the rural areas, schools that are in urban environments, and schools that are in suburban environments. What are some of the differences, if there are differences, when it comes to research on lockdown situations? 

L. Eakins: (20:40)
Okay. Well, basically, research was actually lacking until 2013. That's when the Martindale Bleyer study first came out. It looked at active shooter events and, you know, just the trends. And so, there is a recent 2019 FBI report that just came out in September and it outlines what has been happening in K-12 and higher ed from the year of 2000 to 2018. And so, what we do know is that out of the 200 -- well, first of all, there were 278 active shooter events. Get this: in 18 years, 278 active shooter events in K-12 and higher ed with most of the events happening at high schools. Out of the 110 of the 278 events resulted in 173 deaths and the highest number per state in descending order, California, Ohio, Virginia, Florida, Pennsylvania, and the state of Washington. 

L. Eakins: (22:01)
Now 39 of these incidents happen in cities with less than 100,000 people. So, there is a nice grouping of active shooter events that happen in rural areas, and then 73% of the active shooters had a connection with their school, meaning that they were either students, former students, or they actually work there or used to work there. And all of the active shooters had experienced some type of social stressor, be it a relationship or that they were being bullied or something like that. And most of them had a history of school disciplinary action. And, this is the main fact right here: 95% of the active shooters had leakage. What do I mean by that? They communicated their actions or the actions they planned to take, to someone else. They communicated it either to their school resource officer, which was very, very rare, but they communicated -- generally speaking, they communicated it to a fellow student. And those students either didn't do anything or they did go to the SRO. And I think that's critical. And that's where most of our resources, most of our energies, should be placed on these threat assessment teams. And, you know, some states actually require school districts, that have these TAT teams, to make sure that you are looking at the signs and the signals and being preemptive with preventing active shooter events. 

S. Eakins: (23:52)
So, Dr. Eakins, since we're talking about active shooters situations, I want to know, Dr. Eakins -- there's been a lot of debate when it comes to what to do about these situations. So, some school's districts have opted to hire emergency management staff or leaders at the district level and even some schools have done so, as well. And then, there's always that debate -- or there's been this debate as far as, should we arm our teachers? I'd love to get your feedback as a public safety and law enforcement background, all those things. I would love to get your take on that. 

L. Eakins: (24:31)
Okay. Well I can give you the very cut and dry answer from a law enforcement standpoint and that is that police tend to prefer that police officers be police officers and teachers be teachers. Because when there is an active shooter event, the police officers are coming in there and they are going towards the shooting. They are going for where they have been told the shooter is and the only person that I really want to see with the weapon is the actual shooter. So, if I see a teacher going -- running down the hallway with a weapon and I say "Halt! Stop! Police!" And then they turn around and now their weapon crosses my plane, I can -- at that point, I'm authorized to use deadly force because that gun has now pointed towards me inadvertently. It has happened. Now most police officers won't shoot because their sixth sense kicks in and they see this person was running with a gun and you know, they don't -- most active shooters have long guns and they probably have a handgun. 

L. Eakins: (25:47)
So there is the caveat that I give, if your school district is looking at arming teachers, then, man, you have to make sure that you have some type policies and procedures on that. That the teachers have to know what their role is, that when law enforcement comes, they have to drop their weapons immediately, immediately. Now understand, you know, I get it that there are some rural school districts that are relying on even the state police. They may be 20 minutes out and these situations can go down in just a matter of minutes, so I can see where, you know, where this is heading. But I will only just give caution that you have to make sure that the teachers have training, they are required to go out to the firing range and qualify with their weapon in a combat type of training. 

L. Eakins: (26:45)
Because you don't want to have a teacher shooting the wrong person or -- because they were not qualified to use a weapon -- they have shot someone who is innocent. So, I do know that this conversation is really out there. It's hot and heavy, especially every time there is a shooting. So, I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying that if this is the road that you're going to take, understand what you're getting into, understand that your insurance premiums will probably go up. Understand that you are wanting to be held civilly liable as a superintendent, as a board member, if anything goes wrong. The best thing to do, if at all possible, is to have a school resource officer. And I know that there are very poor school districts that really just can't do this. But that's the main thing that I would say for that. 

S. Eakins: (27:43)
You know, I've had a lot of conversations from parents of color and I've even seen articles in response to the whole question of should we arm our teachers? And a lot of the conversations are on -- is this opening up a window for my child of color to be the first one killed or inadvertently shot because they are assumed to be a threat by a teacher who is armed. A situation occurs where the teacher says they felt threatened in that heated moment and they reached for the gun. I've heard those conversations happen to where -- parents would say, you know what, "I will pull my child out of this school if ya’ll went to arming teachers." Another conversation that I've had is parents are concerned with -- okay, teachers teach, like you said, like, you know, teachers are supposed to teach. 

S. Eakins: (28:39)
And so they're -- how often are they utilizing their weapons, even if they go to a gun range on the weekends. But that's just, you know -- okay, I'm practicing my aim and target and things like that versus the actual situations versus a police officer who's trained and they go through, you know, routine trainings and they go through these situations where, you know, heartbeats are up and all those kinds of situations that happens on a regular basis versus a teacher who, you know, they go through the, you know, target training and then they do some of those things. But that's about as far as it goes. So, I'd love to get your thoughts on that. And I even thought about, you know, for a teacher who does have a military or law enforcement background that is, you know, changing their career and they become a teacher, should we arm teachers in that sense, as well? 

L. Eakins: (29:28)
Well, see that's why I actually mentioned there should be combat training. So, going through a course of training that involves combat -- for instance -- and not so much that you go out on your own. No, no, because, you know, if you are a bad shooter then you just reinforce those bad skills. I'm talking about with a certified firearms instructor who shows you how to draw your weapon, how to hold your weapon, and just the different things that you're not doing right to where -- and then, as you said, you have to build up your stress level. For instance, one of the trainings that we go through is that we have to pull a truck tire by a rope, like, 25 yards first, and then we start shooting. Now, I mean for me -- so just like I said, I've been doing this for 35 years, so I'm a little bit over here. 

L. Eakins: (30:30)
So for me to pull a truck tire 25 yards and then run 25 yards up to the fire range, and then I have different targets moving, coming, and going. And I have to decide whether I'm shooting this lady carrying a bag of groceries or I'm shooting a guy who has a gun pointed at me. So, you have to do more combat training and it has to be on a regular basis. So, I always say the training should be based on what local law enforcement have to go through. It should be the exact same training because you're expecting them to make the exact same decisions. Now that's just the firing range part. There has to be the classroom part where they are told the legal responsibilities of being armed. You know, because, oftentimes, we get the question here on a college campus that -- well, you know, our teachers can carry a concealed weapon. 

L. Eakins: (31:27)
Yes they can, but they need to understand what their responsibility is. And you're absolutely right about a teacher feeling threatened in their classroom. What if a student comes up to them and gets in their face? Do they know that they are not authorized to use deadly force? They cannot even brandish a weapon. You don't pull your weapon unless you plan on using it. You don't pull it out and shoot this warning shot or just like, let's say, "Now you better sit down, or I want to --" No, Dr. Eakins! You don't do that. So, I'm just saying that you're going down a slippery path when you start arming your teachers in an urban setting, in a rural setting. You have to think it through. I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying it has to be well thought out. 

S. Eakins: (32:21)
Okay, thank you. So Dr. Eakins, as a professional -- as a public safety professional -- you have given nugget after nugget of resources of things for us to think about is there like maybe like a one or like -- okay, this is the, like, if you don't do anything else, you need to do this when it comes to emergency management.

L. Eakins: (32:40)
Okay. Well, the main thing that I will say and -- now this is low hanging fruit, Dr. Eakins. This is free and we know free is totally cheap. So, the US -- the Education's Office of Safe and Supportive schools, they administer this program called Readiness and Emergency Management for Schools' Technical Assistance Center. The short word is REMS TA Center. REMS -- space -- TA -- space -- Center. This can be Googled. This is a free service from the US Department of Education that takes -- oh my goodness, there are so many resources here. And you can call in, they have a technical assistance phone line. They can give you advice or how to plan your exercises and drills that are sensitive -- that are culturally sensitive -- that will take into account the culture of your school district and schools. 

L. Eakins: (33:56)
It can look at the different languages that may be there, disabilities -- how do you get students downstairs --okay -- who are in wheelchairs? Well, there are different techniques for that. How about students who have access challenges or functional needs? You know, we have to be culturally sensitive when we start designing our emergency operations plan. So, the REMS TA Center, they will even come out to your school, to your district and put on an eight-hour training and they take you through the six steps of designing emergency operations plans. I'm actually one of the instructors for this program and I -- okay, so just because I teach it, Dr. Eakins, I'm not trying to promote it, but it is a government program that really works and I have seen school districts just totally changed their outlook, changed their planning process. I mean, it hits everything from putting together a planning team. 

L. Eakins: (35:02)
You know, I used to think that I could write an emergency operations plan. I was so wrong -- but you have to have a collaborative team. And so, if there's one tip that I can give, is to use the services of the REMS TA Center. They are supportive, they are responsive, and they are competent in how they are working with K-12 -- they even have a threat assessment team program about how to put together a threat assessment team. This is free, it's free, and we need to partake of it. School districts, charter schools. You really need to look into this valuable resource. 

S. Eakins: (35:45)
I love it. Thank you so much, Dr. Eakins, for sharing about it. And I guess I have two more questions. I have one more because I want to ask about what do we do afterwards. Okay, so we've spent a lot of our time on drills and we spent a lot of our time on the actual moment of a lockdown and various situations. What are some of the aftermath strategies -- again, we're trying to mitigate as much trauma, but sometimes our kids do get traumatized in these situations, or we may not have done the best job, or we realize we may not have done the best job with these situations. What are some aftermath strategies to calm students, staff, who have experienced a lockdown incident? 

L. Eakins: (36:29)
Well, again, you have to have the trauma informed care. Even if you know that you don't have enough counselors in your school district to handle a total school lockdown, that's where the planning comes to where you already have resources, who you can call in -- licensed counselors from your community -- who are stating, "Yes, I will come in and I will do counseling." And they have received training on trauma informed care. And then, also your emergency operations plan to have an annex that deals with memorials. Once something like this happens, where lives are lost, you're going to start having signs, teddy bears, flowers showing up. You have to manage that. You need to designate where the memorials will be so they're not blocking a sidewalk or a school entrance or a roadway and then there will be vigils. 

L. Eakins: (37:32)
It's best to plan the vigils. And so, all of these things -- it's just a part of the planning process and the care afterwards. Even when there is a police shooting, I have had my officers go to mandatory counseling even though they say, "Well, I'm okay, I'm good," you know -- no, you're not good and you need to go to counseling. So counseling is something that we need to plan for and have ready. Because it's too late to pass out business cards once the bullets start flying. This is something that we say all the time. You have to establish relationships beforehand, have plans beforehand, and then you're ready to act. Because when these things happen, it's chaos. It's total chaos. I have been involved in something like this. It's chaos. And so, when you have plans, you are more stable and you're more -- you can think clear because you have a reference base. But when you don't have a plan, you're shooting from the hip. That's what happens. 

S. Eakins: (38:37)
Hmm. You're literally shooting from the hip. Thank you. Dr. Eakins. Okay, this is fun. Okay, so last question. I consider you a voice in Leading Equity. What is one final word of advice that you can provide to our listeners? 

L. Eakins: (39:02)
I would say preparedness. You have to be prepared. It will show if you are not prepared and something like this happens. It takes time, but you have to have your leadership involved, superintendents have to be on board. You can have as much passion as you want to have as a teacher, as a principal, assistant principal, counselor. But you have to have your leadership on board. And so, you have to be prepared, you have to plan. And that's why I say that the REMS TA Center, it's a form where you have your principals come in, your superintendents, and everyone, and they go through this train so that when you go back to your school, everyone knows what needs to be done. So, preparation is the key. 

S. Eakins: (39:56)
Preparation is the key. Well, Dr. Eakins is with me. Dr. Lewis Eakins is with me today in this episode. If we have some folks that want to reach out to you, if there's some, some school leaders that, or district leaders that, you know, maybe they have some additional questions or need some additional support, what is the best way to connect with you online? 

L. Eakins: (40:17)
Oh, the best way to connect with me is by email. [email protected] I would welcome feedback. I welcome questions. You know, and I really mean this, I'm not just saying this. Okay. I really mean that I want to be a resource. I want us to be culturally sensitive. I want us to be prepared. I'm just there as a resource for you, in any way possible. 

S. Eakins: (40:52)
Are there any other social media -- Twitter or anything -- a website that you would like to share as well? 

L. Eakins: (40:58)
Yeah, sure, you can go to my website to find out more about my background. That's www.eakinscs.com. And my Twitter is @lewiseakins.

S. Eakins: (41:17)
Alright. Thank you, Dr. Lewis Eakins, for joining us today. It has been a pleasure. You have delivered a wealth of knowledge towards our -- to us fellow Advocates out there. And I hope that, again, the messages that we discussed today, will be beneficial to our listeners out there. So again, thank you for your time.

L. Eakins: (41:38)
And thank you, Dr. Eakins -- Dr. Sheldon Eakins -- for having me.

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